Warrior General Games

hard count: most offsides i've ever seen in a game is 2. tried it once on a QB and I think we got like 5 for the season. seems like a waste of VA

pancake: used to use it on many of my league leading pancakers. decided to not use it on one and became my biggest pancaker. seems to me that you need a certain build to get pancakes and once you have that build, pancake sa becomes irrelevant

on the run: has any one seen a qb throw a pass once he tucks it to run?

superior vision:this may be useful if used per the description, but i see way too many kickers, punters, qbs, etc using it. i am pretty sure bort confirmed it only works as defined

let the discussion begin

Was shocked and appalled to see SV on the list, but I get your point after reading it.

SV is only a very special kind of fake resistance. Nothing more or less.

Actually tho, in today's sim where the object of pass coverage is to bait throws to generate INTs, SV is probably anti-helpfull for that also.

I'd throw all of the LB noise SAs in the pile. Growl/Snarl/Grunt/Fart whatever else they do for morale drains are all worthless.

No way. My blitzing LB took Fart to 15. The extra burst of speed is worth.

Agree with the LB SAs. They have the worst SA tree in the game, IMO. It's kind of sad that safeties also got stuck with Growl.

Hands (the OL SA, not the weird dangly things on the ends of your upper appendages) doesn't seem like it's worth much. That also goes for Smooth Operator. IIRC, they were originally designed to let dots get away with penalties like holding and DPI - in a game that has never had those penalties.

It seems like making every CB carry Return Specialist is a waste of a spot. Does anyone at high levels use anything besides HBs for returners anymore?

Demoralize, as I understand it, is actually pretty powerful. On the 1/10,000 chance it fires, you're going to really mess the other team's morale up. Good luck with that

Dump Pass - don't QBs just do kind of do that already? Do you honestly need a bonus to dump the ball off to an HB/FB?

Making Lower the Shoulder rTEs' "best" ability was cold. Couldn't we get Juke instead?

Some OL pass blocking abilities - Foundation, Absorb Pain - might be really good. I have no idea because I cannot tell for the life of me when/if they ever fire

Since you mentioned a VA, Clever Instinct is a complete waste of a VA. Totally worthless.

Awe Inspiring and Underdog seem like they suck but I've never tried them.

Has anyone ever tried Natural Leader? I like the idea but my guess is that it doesn't do very much.

Hometown Hero doesn't seem like it's worth a slot. I used to swear by HoC but now it just seems wasteful when you could carry VAs that apply in every game and not just the last 1-3.

I'm sure there are some morale killing builds out there that make effective use of Showboat Blocker but I've never found much utility in it. That's probably true of Intimidation and maybe Showboat as well.

I use natural leader for certain positions. Just curious, why does demoralize fire that infrequently? Have people tested it out? That's another one I normally take to 10.

I personally love HoC on the D-line (QBs, probably K or P if I ever made one).

Maybe not for Pro when every game counts, but all the way up to Pro it's a great value. For all those teams that go Pummel/Aura on their O-line, basically that crap gets shut off.

Can't really think of any other dot where going from 50 to 70+ Confidence would be useful.

Originally posted by vjburnette


Since you mentioned a VA, Clever Instinct is a complete waste of a VA. Totally worthless.


we could start a whole new thread on the uselessness of VAs. every time i see 15 in "on a roll", i just what to shake that person and scream "read the description" because the likelihood of it firing is next to nil in a competitive game. and if it does happen, it doesnt seem of any value because i saw a plateau kicker with 15 in OAR make 3 fgs, then miss a fg in the 40s.

Originally posted by Guppy, Inc
we could start a whole new thread on the uselessness of VAs. every time i see 15 in "on a roll", i just what to shake that person and scream "read the description" because the likelihood of it firing is next to nil in a competitive game. and if it does happen, it doesnt seem of any value because i saw a plateau kicker with 15 in OAR make 3 fgs, then miss a fg in the 40s.


ps nice to see some old teammates posting still

Originally posted by Fred Ex
I use natural leader for certain positions. Just curious, why does demoralize fire that infrequently? Have people tested it out? That's another one I normally take to 10.

As I understand it, it does not fire on called QB runs. It only fires (and not always) on plays where a pass is called and the QB goes through his reads, decides to run, rushes outside the tackle, and picks up a gain. Don't get me wrong - it CAN be done. But it's not very reliable in my experience and not worth the required skill point/AEq investment. For a rushing QB, I'd rather just add another break tackle % piece or spend the 50 total SP it would take to get it to 9 somewhere else

Also, how is your experience with natural leader? Now I'm curious. Maybe it was watching my team get shredded by an Aura of Int/Pummel offense the other day but now I'm starting to wonder about the leader abilities and that VA. FWIW, I do use Field General on my passing QBs but I've never noticed a huge difference with it. I also used to use Defense General, Offensive Line General, and D-Line General a lot more. And I always kind of thought Free Safeties should have a Secondary General ability. But maybe have that ability at every level of the defense would be OP

Originally posted by vjburnette


Also, how is your experience with natural leader? Now I'm curious. Maybe it was watching my team get shredded by an Aura of Int/Pummel offense the other day but now I'm starting to wonder about the leader abilities and that VA. FWIW, I do use Field General on my passing QBs but I've never noticed a huge difference with it. I also used to use Defense General, Offensive Line General, and D-Line General a lot more. And I always kind of thought Free Safeties should have a Secondary General ability. But maybe have that ability at every level of the defense would be OP



IMO... Wouldn't be worth the opportunity cost to chase it on a QB. Your AEQ is already locked in with PQ/PD gear, and you'd have to slog thru Pump Fake and Turn Shoulder to get to OG.

D-Line General is probably the best use case. You don't "see it" unless you're really watching. Your D-line will occasionally gain 1 morale point between the end of one play and the start of the next. Over the course of the game, a bunch of 1s add up. Having 1 or 2 designated NTs is fairly common. Makes 100% uptime pretty easy.

O-Line General can help if you go light on O-line instead of the usual load out of 2c-4g-4t. It'll probably require a 4 AEQ build though because it's at the end of the Pass Block tree. If you go with 1 C, it's probably advisable.

Defense General is probably the worst. LBs get subbed in and out of different formations which means a few LBs would have to invest, and you're already fairly busy with build requirements.

Demoralize works on called QB runs

Originally posted by RyanCane26
Demoralize works on called QB runs
I thought so. I went back and read the description again. It is worded a little weird.

Originally posted by vjburnette


Making Lower the Shoulder rTEs' "best" ability was cold. Couldn't we get Juke instead?



It IS quite amazing that "Lower The Shoulder" has stayed where it has on the receiving tree--it doesn't belong there at all for TEs. There hasn't been a run-over-the tackler-receiving TE worth a crap since....Season 20? A DPride team had one that was pretty good, but the game changed and even that singular build didn't last long. There's a half-dozen "receiving" SAs that I would ordinarily NEVER use...but I'd be more likely to use ANY of those rather than "Lower The Shoulder".

where do yall land on pancake on a blocking FB? blocking TE?

in my experience those are about the only two positions where it seems to have value