Warrior General Games

looking for opinions on if a HB KR/PR should go with 3 or 4 pieces of AEQ.....I've always went with 4 in the past but would it be better to just go with 3 and multi train a lot longer?

TIA

Originally posted by Monty Burns
looking for opinions on if a HB KR/PR should go with 3 or 4 pieces of AEQ.....I've always went with 4 in the past but would it be better to just go with 3 and multi train a lot longer?

TIA

I think you can never go wrong with that extra break tackle % or carrying you're getting from the AEQ

for returners I'm all about Not Fumble % imo. 1 fumble in your own territory can change the game/morale and everything. and returners tend to fumble a lot. the only player on my team I want with forced fumble % is the STOP Gunner aiming the returner.

agree with the fumbling....I usually go 1x NF/FC/BT and the 4th being another one of those first 3, or Spin SA.....and 6+ Cover Up is something I always try to include....

so does getting, say, the Spin SA (last in the tree) or an extra 7.5% boost to an AEQ % piece, out weigh the extra multi training???

I've had a lot of success with 3 piece returners... as long as the REASON for going 3 piece is that you wanna really get your carrying up high. If it's high enough, there's VA's that will keep your fumbles down. Thinking you can build a returner that will NEVER EVER fumble is bad thinking... it's probably happened at least once but I guarantee you it was as much a product of luck as it was the quality of the build. I've had a couple get close... one had only 5 fumbles in it's career... playoffs included... with NO AEQ for stopping fumbles... just HIGH carrying and some quality VA's. If you choose to go the 3 AEQ route, that's paramount. As for which AEQ pieces, I'm with kagushun... going with at LEAST 2 AEQ for BT plus my CEQ dedicated also. Or you can get 3 BT's pieces and use the CEQ for other stuff (like spin or hurdle or NOT FUMBLE SA).
I'll add a caveat here... if you're building a POWER-STYLE returner then you're gonna want that 'not fumble' piece more than if you're building an elusive. Sounds counter intuitive but the slower power-style is much more likely to get smacked head on with a HH LB player loaded with FF gear than the elusive one is. Most of his hits are diving tackles and not of the 'head-on' variety. It's those head on hits that cause more fumbles than anything else. If you DO build an elusive, carrying and, at LEAST strength to 1st cap... along with the right VA's... will keep your fumbles WAY down.

Originally posted by Theo Wizzago
If you DO build an elusive, carrying and, at LEAST strength to 1st cap... along with the right VA's... will keep your fumbles WAY down.

STR to 3rd cap at least.

Originally posted by Kenshinzen
STR to 3rd cap at least.

i wouldnt even touch a returner now that has less than 70 in strength and 90 in carrying.

Originally posted by Kenshinzen
STR to 3rd cap at least.

I'd prefer to hit that but I never had an issue with any strength above 50 (as far as fumbles go). Where it (strength) really helps is my stronger returners seemed to break/slip more tackles than my weaker ones did.

Originally posted by Guppy, Inc
i wouldn't even touch a returner now that has less than 70 in strength and 90 in carrying.

Yeah... hitting these two numbers (70 and 90) is the sign of a quality build. I did the 50-90 build several times... going for higher SA's, higher Agility, and/or higher speed with several builds... just to see the differences and stuff. As I posted above though, I just don't think the swap (70 strength for 50 strength for higher numbers elsewhere) mitigated the lack of ability to slip/break a few tackles. To some, it wouldn't seem like there's a LOT of difference between a 70 strength returner and a 50 strength returner. As far as # of fumbles went, I really didn't see much difference at all (which leads me to believe that carrying is the #1 skill to combat fumbles... WAY #1). But as far as overall performance... (total return yards and yards per return... IMO, the only two reliable numbers to evaluate the success of a returner build because TD's are so fickle)... I noticed the stronger returners tended to get more yards consistently which leads me to believe they broke/slipped more tackles overall.

anyone do a pure fake returner?

2 fake % pieces, Juke, HF, OFF

I'm sure someone has (Sellars comes to mind... he's probably done a whole lotta returners in his time). I haven't. My very first returner I ended up scrapping because he didn't have enough carrying and all the 'don't fumble' SA's, VA's, and AEQ's couldn't stop him from giving up the ball. Learned my lesson then.

my best returner had his worst fumble season in his easiest league. never could figure out how 6 of his 9 career fumbles came in 1 season of pacpro.

Originally posted by Guppy, Inc
my best returner had his worst fumble season in his easiest league. never could figure out how 6 of his 9 career fumbles came in 1 season of pacpro.

Guessing it was more of a return unit issue?

Originally posted by reddogrw
Guessing it was more of a return unit issue?

nope, had a bunch of rawss players blocking for him. previous returner won mvp behind the same guys

One of my teams suggested that I add Clutch to my returner. Does it fire for returners, or only Kicking and Punting?

Clutch will fire for returners but.....you should have 15 each in Returner Man, Slippery, Quick Feet and Special Teamer and 1 in OTK, IMO, leaving only about 11 left over.....I usually go Steady Grip here, but I've heard that some use Clutch....