Warrior General Games

The old way was the 78 cap

is it the same or is it more in the 81-84 range?

and is the new way for vision is in the 100-102 cap range for Pocket Passer?

Originally posted by Bane
Originally posted by Tribal Warfare

The old way was the 78 cap

it is the same



60 and 68 cap these days - especially after the test server showed what little affect it had

it is why you should ALWAYS build with the Deep Passer archetype

Originally posted by reddogrw
you should ALWAYS build with the Deep Passer archetype

if you pass, absolutely

Originally posted by reddogrw
60 and 68 cap these days - especially after the test server showed what little affect it had (agree with this, I do.)

it is why you should ALWAYS build with the Deep Passer archetype. (agree with this I do NOT.)

A well built pocket passer married with an intelligent OC is just every bit as solid a weapon as a DP QB. IMO. I know the easy build is the DP build but I simply don't agree with the PP being useless or ineffective. It's my weapon of choice whenever I build and I've never had any problem at any level with them.
As for your question on vision... taking it to 100-102... not sure you're gonna get the bang for the buck there. 90+ has worked for me extremely well and the saved SP's spent on other important skills (agility, speed [need a little of this on ANY QB], stamina, ect.) has done more good for the end quality than having an extremely high vision. Don't quote me on this but if you're wanting high vision to effect your SA's and VA's, I don't think it works as a matchup skill the way Strength and Blocking and others do. I think it mostly effects how often a SA or VA fires and, to some lesser degree, it's 'quality'. As it goes against a defender who has to make a vision check to avoid the SA's or VA's 'effect', the defender's vision doesn't compete against the QB's but, rather, the level of the SA or VA. If you're wanting the high vision simply to help with finding the open man, 90+ is plenty 99% of the time.

Originally posted by Theo Wizzago
A well built pocket passer married with an intelligent OC is just every bit as solid a weapon as a DP QB. IMO. I know the easy build is the DP build but I simply don't agree with the PP being useless or ineffective. It's my weapon of choice whenever I build and I've never had any problem at any level with them.
As for your question on vision... taking it to 100-102... not sure you're gonna get the bang for the buck there. 90+ has worked for me extremely well and the saved SP's spent on other important skills (agility, speed [need a little of this on ANY QB], stamina, ect.) has done more good for the end quality than having an extremely high vision. Don't quote me on this but if you're wanting high vision to effect your SA's and VA's, I don't think it works as a matchup skill the way Strength and Blocking and others do. I think it mostly effects how often a SA or VA fires and, to some lesser degree, it's 'quality'. As it goes against a defender who has to make a vision check to avoid the SA's or VA's 'effect', the defender's vision doesn't compete against the QB's but, rather, the level of the SA or VA. If you're wanting the high vision simply to help with finding the open man, 90+ is plenty 99% of the time.



why would you ever want to have confidence as a major over strength?

you can take vision up 2nd and strength 3rd using the Deep Passer archetype

confidence should never be higher than strength on a QB, the main reason why (if you are passing) Deep Passer archetype >>>>>Pocket Passer archetype

Originally posted by reddogrw
why would you ever want to have confidence as a major over strength?

you can take vision up 2nd and strength 3rd using the Deep Passer archetype

confidence should never be higher than strength on a QB, the main reason why (if you are passing) Deep Passer archetype >>>>>Pocket Passer archetype

couldnt agree more. my QB will have 60 conf. confidence is a fucking joke beyond that. pump throwing>strength/vis

deep passer ftw.

Originally posted by reddogrw
why would you ever want to have confidence as a major over strength?

you can take vision up 2nd and strength 3rd using the Deep Passer archetype

confidence should never be higher than strength on a QB, the main reason why (if you are passing) Deep Passer archetype >>>>>Pocket Passer archetype

First of all, there are 2 differences between the builds. One is the difference of major/minor on con and str... the other, and the reason I like the PP, is the preferred SA's. DP has 'turn the shoulder'... which I've never been a fan of... while PP has 'pump fake'... which I love. Also, if you so believe that confidence has NO meaning at all for your build, why are you putting 60 into it??? Why not never touch it and have it down in the 20's or low 30's at end of build? To say you're putting 60 in is to admit you believe hat confidence has SOME effect in the ability of your QB. I am NOT ever gonna say confidence is more important than strength... but I can build a PP with plenty of strength and a confidence of somewhere around 70 and all the other bling that you hang on a DP arch. I don't expect him to be sacked (yeah... it happens... but I don't BUILD for it) so carrying and 'turn the shoulder' are useless to me (IMO). I'd rather simply build a strong PP with 'Pump fake' as a favored than a strong DP with 'turn the shoulder'. That's why I build them. I seriously believe your DP builds and my PP builds look very much alike when finished. But I prefer the SA favs of the PP arch over the DP arch and I can build around the simple flip/flop of the primary/secondary skills of str/con.
Mind you, it's what you LIKE and what you BELIEVE in when you build it. I simply prefer the PP arch. But I'll never dis you guys that prefer the DP arch. It's what you like and what you like to build. I just don't want the misconception out there that you CANNOT build a highly competitive PP QB just because the major/minors are flipped.

Originally posted by Theo Wizzago
I just don't want the misconception out there that you CANNOT build a highly competitive PP QB just because the major/minors are flipped.
No one is saying that you can't do it, just that it's unnecessarily handicapping your build. Pump fake only works against defenders in zone coverage and doesn't do a whole lot even then. It has some value, but not enough that making it a favored SA dramatically impacts performance. So unless you're ignoring both strength and confidence, the only reason you would ever choose the Pocket Passer archetype is if you plan on stat-padding enough to go for MVP equipment and its +pass quality bonus rather than DP's +pass distance bonus.

Pump Fake only works against zone?

I thought that was Look Off

Originally posted by jdbolick
Originally posted by Theo Wizzago

I just don't want the misconception out there that you CANNOT build a highly competitive PP QB just because the major/minors are flipped.
No one is saying that you can't do it, just that it's unnecessarily handicapping your build. Pump fake only works against defenders in zone coverage and doesn't do a whole lot even then. It has some value, but not enough that making it a favored SA dramatically impacts performance. So unless you're ignoring both strength and confidence, the only reason you would ever choose the Pocket Passer archetype is if you plan on stat-padding enough to go for MVP equipment and its +pass quality bonus rather than DP's +pass distance bonus.

+1

Originally posted by Theo Wizzago
Originally posted by reddogrw

why would you ever want to have confidence as a major over strength?

you can take vision up 2nd and strength 3rd using the Deep Passer archetype

confidence should never be higher than strength on a QB, the main reason why (if you are passing) Deep Passer archetype >>>>>Pocket Passer archetype

First of all, there are 2 differences between the builds. One is the difference of major/minor on con and str... the other, and the reason I like the PP, is the preferred SA's. DP has 'turn the shoulder'... which I've never been a fan of... while PP has 'pump fake'... which I love. Also, if you so believe that confidence has NO meaning at all for your build, why are you putting 60 into it??? Why not never touch it and have it down in the 20's or low 30's at end of build? To say you're putting 60 in is to admit you believe hat confidence has SOME effect in the ability of your QB. I am NOT ever gonna say confidence is more important than strength... but I can build a PP with plenty of strength and a confidence of somewhere around 70 and all the other bling that you hang on a DP arch. I don't expect him to be sacked (yeah... it happens... but I don't BUILD for it) so carrying and 'turn the shoulder' are useless to me (IMO). I'd rather simply build a strong PP with 'Pump fake' as a favored than a strong DP with 'turn the shoulder'. That's why I build them. I seriously believe your DP builds and my PP builds look very much alike when finished. But I prefer the SA favs of the PP arch over the DP arch and I can build around the simple flip/flop of the primary/secondary skills of str/con.
Mind you, it's what you LIKE and what you BELIEVE in when you build it. I simply prefer the PP arch. But I'll never dis you guys that prefer the DP arch. It's what you like and what you like to build. I just don't want the misconception out there that you CANNOT build a highly competitive PP QB just because the major/minors are flipped.

the tests on the test server were comparing something like 60 or 70 conf vs 100 or something - I don't think it tested vs 20 conffidence

Originally posted by reddogrw
the tests on the test server were comparing something like 60 or 70 conf vs 100 or something - I don't think it tested vs 20 conffidence

catch or whoever it was definitely did 60,70 and like 90+ or whatever and said there was no difference between the two that he could see. no matter the confidence, you still go into that spiral of throwing 5 INTs a game once in a while. i remember quite a few pages of a thread on it.

glad i never cared for confidence anyway.