Does anyone know the actual penalty or if there is an actual penalty for a Run Blocking Left Tackle putting skill points or equipment on "Protect" on the ability tree?
Forum > FAQ's, Player Guides and Newbie Help > Protect Ability
sunder B
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unofficially, a disgruntled former employee claimed that the penalty was 40% on all of the penalty SA's
Don't recall it ever being confirmed
Don't recall it ever being confirmed
So according to the above post, putting 14 in it should be like having 10 in a non favored/penalized SA
I've always been of a split mind on this tactic (putting SP's into penalized SA's). On the one hand, I've never seen anywhere where the basic skill used to determine outcomes is penalized... so 2 completely equal builds... one a run block guard and the other a pass block guard (yes, I know you don't build them the same... but, for the sake of argument, just agree with the premise)... without the benefit of any SA's included both would have an equal chance to block in any given situation (supposedly). So that means the SA's simply enhance the overall outcome of any given encounter.
So for a penalized SA, it simply means that you don't get it's full benefit. You still receive a benefit... so that means it's not totally worthless... right? I suppose it comes down to this; Since you're devaluing the SP's spent into the SA (that is penalized) is it worth MORE doing that than spending those same SP's on non-penalized SA's and getting the fuller benefit? If you can answer that, then you have answered the (OP's) question.
(BTW, don't forget those VA's that cover some of the same things.)
So for a penalized SA, it simply means that you don't get it's full benefit. You still receive a benefit... so that means it's not totally worthless... right? I suppose it comes down to this; Since you're devaluing the SP's spent into the SA (that is penalized) is it worth MORE doing that than spending those same SP's on non-penalized SA's and getting the fuller benefit? If you can answer that, then you have answered the (OP's) question.
(BTW, don't forget those VA's that cover some of the same things.)
Novus
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Originally posted by Theo Wizzago
I've always been of a split mind on this tactic (putting SP's into penalized SA's). On the one hand, I've never seen anywhere where the basic skill used to determine outcomes is penalized... so 2 completely equal builds... one a run block guard and the other a pass block guard (yes, I know you don't build them the same... but, for the sake of argument, just agree with the premise)... without the benefit of any SA's included both would have an equal chance to block in any given situation (supposedly). So that means the SA's simply enhance the overall outcome of any given encounter.
So for a penalized SA, it simply means that you don't get it's full benefit. You still receive a benefit... so that means it's not totally worthless... right? I suppose it comes down to this; Since you're devaluing the SP's spent into the SA (that is penalized) is it worth MORE doing that than spending those same SP's on non-penalized SA's and getting the fuller benefit? If you can answer that, then you have answered the (OP's) question.
(BTW, don't forget those VA's that cover some of the same things.)
It's a question of bigger-bang-for-your-buck. Sure, you'll still get some of the benefits from spending points in a Penalized SA, but you can get the FULL benefits from spending points in a normal SA or even EXTRA benefits from spending points in a Favored SA.
Also, Protect is at the top of the SA Tree, which makes it more "expensive" to put SPs into, another reason I'd hesitate to do so if it's a Penalized SA.
I'd rather get full value for my SPs if possible. If Protect is a penalized SA for you but you want to round out your pass-blocking abilities, you'll probably get more value out of putting SPs into some other SA instead that will also help you with pass-blocking. I'll let others debate the merits of these, but potential non-penalized candidates for, say, an OT, would be Shock Block, Absorb Pain, Foundation, Spot Blitz, or Balance.
I've always been of a split mind on this tactic (putting SP's into penalized SA's). On the one hand, I've never seen anywhere where the basic skill used to determine outcomes is penalized... so 2 completely equal builds... one a run block guard and the other a pass block guard (yes, I know you don't build them the same... but, for the sake of argument, just agree with the premise)... without the benefit of any SA's included both would have an equal chance to block in any given situation (supposedly). So that means the SA's simply enhance the overall outcome of any given encounter.
So for a penalized SA, it simply means that you don't get it's full benefit. You still receive a benefit... so that means it's not totally worthless... right? I suppose it comes down to this; Since you're devaluing the SP's spent into the SA (that is penalized) is it worth MORE doing that than spending those same SP's on non-penalized SA's and getting the fuller benefit? If you can answer that, then you have answered the (OP's) question.
(BTW, don't forget those VA's that cover some of the same things.)
It's a question of bigger-bang-for-your-buck. Sure, you'll still get some of the benefits from spending points in a Penalized SA, but you can get the FULL benefits from spending points in a normal SA or even EXTRA benefits from spending points in a Favored SA.
Also, Protect is at the top of the SA Tree, which makes it more "expensive" to put SPs into, another reason I'd hesitate to do so if it's a Penalized SA.
I'd rather get full value for my SPs if possible. If Protect is a penalized SA for you but you want to round out your pass-blocking abilities, you'll probably get more value out of putting SPs into some other SA instead that will also help you with pass-blocking. I'll let others debate the merits of these, but potential non-penalized candidates for, say, an OT, would be Shock Block, Absorb Pain, Foundation, Spot Blitz, or Balance.
aaasahi
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Originally posted by RiverRat2
Um
40% off of 14 is 8.4
Problem is there are diminish return.
So actual number will be less than 8.4.
Um
40% off of 14 is 8.4
Problem is there are diminish return.
So actual number will be less than 8.4.
sunder B
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Originally posted by Novus
It's a question of bigger-bang-for-your-buck. Sure, you'll still get some of the benefits from spending points in a Penalized SA, but you can get the FULL benefits from spending points in a normal SA or even EXTRA benefits from spending points in a Favored SA.
Also, Protect is at the top of the SA Tree, which makes it more "expensive" to put SPs into, another reason I'd hesitate to do so if it's a Penalized SA.
I'd rather get full value for my SPs if possible. If Protect is a penalized SA for you but you want to round out your pass-blocking abilities, you'll probably get more value out of putting SPs into some other SA instead that will also help you with pass-blocking. I'll let others debate the merits of these, but potential non-penalized candidates for, say, an OT, would be Shock Block, Absorb Pain, Foundation, Spot Blitz, or Balance.
If you can get it as an AEQ piece, that is +6 from AEQ and then assuming you are using the pass blocking tree on your CEQ, that puts it at 7 already beforespending SPs in it. Gettiing it to 14-15 is pretty easy if done that way without wasting SP's. What else are you gonna use AEQ on? I usually go 2x5% HB and then the 12% HB from CEQ, and even with a 3 AEQ build it is possible.
It's a question of bigger-bang-for-your-buck. Sure, you'll still get some of the benefits from spending points in a Penalized SA, but you can get the FULL benefits from spending points in a normal SA or even EXTRA benefits from spending points in a Favored SA.
Also, Protect is at the top of the SA Tree, which makes it more "expensive" to put SPs into, another reason I'd hesitate to do so if it's a Penalized SA.
I'd rather get full value for my SPs if possible. If Protect is a penalized SA for you but you want to round out your pass-blocking abilities, you'll probably get more value out of putting SPs into some other SA instead that will also help you with pass-blocking. I'll let others debate the merits of these, but potential non-penalized candidates for, say, an OT, would be Shock Block, Absorb Pain, Foundation, Spot Blitz, or Balance.
If you can get it as an AEQ piece, that is +6 from AEQ and then assuming you are using the pass blocking tree on your CEQ, that puts it at 7 already beforespending SPs in it. Gettiing it to 14-15 is pretty easy if done that way without wasting SP's. What else are you gonna use AEQ on? I usually go 2x5% HB and then the 12% HB from CEQ, and even with a 3 AEQ build it is possible.
Originally posted by sunder B
If you can get it as an AEQ piece, that is +6 from AEQ and then assuming you are using the pass blocking tree on your CEQ, that puts it at 7 already beforespending SPs in it. Gettiing it to 14-15 is pretty easy if done that way without wasting SP's. What else are you gonna use AEQ on? I usually go 2x5% HB and then the 12% HB from CEQ, and even with a 3 AEQ build it is possible.
There is still the question of opportunity cost. Getting it to 14 in your example would cost 23 SPs as well as an AEQ, which could be used for a cheaper, non-penalized SA and still have more SPs for attributes or further SAs.
If you can get it as an AEQ piece, that is +6 from AEQ and then assuming you are using the pass blocking tree on your CEQ, that puts it at 7 already beforespending SPs in it. Gettiing it to 14-15 is pretty easy if done that way without wasting SP's. What else are you gonna use AEQ on? I usually go 2x5% HB and then the 12% HB from CEQ, and even with a 3 AEQ build it is possible.
There is still the question of opportunity cost. Getting it to 14 in your example would cost 23 SPs as well as an AEQ, which could be used for a cheaper, non-penalized SA and still have more SPs for attributes or further SAs.
Novus
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Originally posted by sunder B
If you can get it as an AEQ piece, that is +6 from AEQ and then assuming you are using the pass blocking tree on your CEQ, that puts it at 7 already beforespending SPs in it. Gettiing it to 14-15 is pretty easy if done that way without wasting SP's. What else are you gonna use AEQ on? I usually go 2x5% HB and then the 12% HB from CEQ, and even with a 3 AEQ build it is possible.
Check the OP, though... this is for a Run-Blocking LOT, so two of the five SAs on the Pass-Blocking Tree are going to be penalized. In that case, why would you have your CEQ set to the Pass-Blocking Tree?
I just think that if the OP wants to take his Run-Blocking LOT and make him a little better at pass-blocking, there are better and more-efficient ways to do it than putting points into the penalized Protector SA, whether he's doing so with SPs, AEQ or CEQ. There are more-efficient things to spend those points on that will get him better results as a pass-blocker.
If you can get it as an AEQ piece, that is +6 from AEQ and then assuming you are using the pass blocking tree on your CEQ, that puts it at 7 already beforespending SPs in it. Gettiing it to 14-15 is pretty easy if done that way without wasting SP's. What else are you gonna use AEQ on? I usually go 2x5% HB and then the 12% HB from CEQ, and even with a 3 AEQ build it is possible.
Check the OP, though... this is for a Run-Blocking LOT, so two of the five SAs on the Pass-Blocking Tree are going to be penalized. In that case, why would you have your CEQ set to the Pass-Blocking Tree?
I just think that if the OP wants to take his Run-Blocking LOT and make him a little better at pass-blocking, there are better and more-efficient ways to do it than putting points into the penalized Protector SA, whether he's doing so with SPs, AEQ or CEQ. There are more-efficient things to spend those points on that will get him better results as a pass-blocker.
I would also take the few extra % from a fourth HB piece over a few extra Protector to help in the pass game.
sunder B
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Originally posted by Novus
Check the OP, though... this is for a Run-Blocking LOT, so two of the five SAs on the Pass-Blocking Tree are going to be penalized. In that case, why would you have your CEQ set to the Pass-Blocking Tree?
Because the OP decided to build a LOT out of a run block arch?
I would not do it, but I have seen it done relatively effectively. They can dominate the pure pass rushers in the run game still, and still be competent at pass blocking
Check the OP, though... this is for a Run-Blocking LOT, so two of the five SAs on the Pass-Blocking Tree are going to be penalized. In that case, why would you have your CEQ set to the Pass-Blocking Tree?
Because the OP decided to build a LOT out of a run block arch?
I would not do it, but I have seen it done relatively effectively. They can dominate the pure pass rushers in the run game still, and still be competent at pass blocking
Originally posted by sunder B
Because the OP decided to build a LOT out of a run block arch?
I would not do it, but I have seen it done relatively effectively. They can dominate the pure pass rushers in the run game still, and still be competent at pass blocking
Time Trial has one of these on Final Boss that I really like.
Because the OP decided to build a LOT out of a run block arch?
I would not do it, but I have seen it done relatively effectively. They can dominate the pure pass rushers in the run game still, and still be competent at pass blocking
Time Trial has one of these on Final Boss that I really like.
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