Not the old GLBPA even tho it was fun and useful.
Thanks JD for making me Vice President back then lol
On a serious note:
I believe a central group could be put in place to stand in for public relations between the customer and the developer/admins.
Changes,updates,user issues could be handled by the group and overlooked by the developer and admins.
My thought in this is it would relieve the developer and admins from direct contact with the userbase and not leave themselves open for criticism.
The GLBPA would handle the situation with guidance instead.
What's most important....GLB....keeps face in future issues...
Currently we don't have that luxury.....
Proposed Chain of Command.....
GLB Players Association Chain of Command:
2 Admins relays to..........
2 Testers relays to...
2 Bugs Moderators relays to....
2 Lead Moderators relays to....
1 Representative from each network and a few independents including a few knowledgeable Dot Builders relays to....
The general public/customer.
Discuss
Notable Points:
Originally posted by hatchman
I don't think it could work at all. basically you would have to have someone running it that everyone on GLB trusted and respected. and that would be very hard to find. also the person that would be in charge would have to have people under them that everyone trusted as well. which is something else that would be hard to find. no offense to anyone here and I am not calling anyone out in general. but to me I wouldn't want someone representing me or the group of friends I play this game with. that was a forum troll or some trouble maker in general. if this was somehting that was implemented then it would need to be someone that is active and has alot of game knowledge.
and before anything is said no I was not referring to myself. I know I am a dumbass on this game and am not well liked for the most part.
Originally posted by BadgerPhil
Yeah, it has been brought up in the past in suggestions and deemed NGTH. Though like some NGTH suggestion, they were moved or left open in GLB Main to foster some conversation. Don't see what that would hurt, as long as the thread can stay on point.
I do agree with hatch... this would be very hard to do, since their are so many varying opinions on users. One users hero is another users troll. And the few that would be good at this, wouldn't touch it and/or most would riot if they did (if this were implemented).
I don't think it's a horrible idea, it certainly has merit, but it's a 'damned if you do and damned if you don't' scenario. Might appease the current "pitchfork" crowd, just to cause another to rise up.
Originally posted by SikoraP13 DTD
I'd argue the best shot would be to create a GLBPA with essentially a grouping of people, who are elected by their peers, and then those peers nominate and vote on the person at the top.
Originally posted by vladykins
Don't frget- trolling doesn't necessarily make one not a hero.
But I think this goes back somewhat to jdbolick's ombudsman concept. Someone not a mod, with no mod powers, that just reports on the sentiment (as well as the opinions regarding mods and such).
Originally posted by BadgerPhil
Oh I agree, some of the users most think are a troll I actually find pretty funny and smart.
jd is who I think would be great for that, imo. That's why I said, I'd doubt they'd take it and if they did, there would be a huge melt down. Just my opinion and I don't think jd's a troll, but I know others do.
He's generally on point, most of the time, he's just blunt and thinks a lot of himself. Nothing wrong with that.
Originally posted by slashxtreme
This only works if there's a direct conduit to the admin. Which might have to be a moderator (but not necessarily). We know people don't like moderation. We know people don't necessarily agree with what moderators do at all times. What I'd like to see is things not devolve into name calling contests and pouting contests when a mod rules against them. You're far more likely to get a good response from a mod when you go into it with a logical rationale.
Originally posted by slashxtreme
For this to have any substantive effect, you'd need someone who actually has a conduit to one of the admin or multiple admin. Basically a user representative on the board. I don't know if they'd be game for this though and whether that position would just merely be a thankless task
.
Originally posted by MV Thunder
This would work but it would have to be totally recognized both parts of GLB. customers and the Company .You are going to need some voices to speak for the user base and instead of fighting or yelling they would need to better enforce their argument with reasons and facts for the betterment of both parties.Like hatch was saying Very dependable people on both sides that would want this to happen and work for all and the betterment of GLB and or GLB2.Good Luck.
Originally posted by EllisBell
OK so I piece-mailed some posts because they inspired me a bit.... This isn't exactly what you are talking about, but, what if we did have a "focus group" of users (now don't get me wrong, we have used several site surveys, forums, Mods, Testers, even non-users etc in the past, we aren't flying blindly). These users would be available for quick pulse checks on site "morale" so to speak, game changes, suggestions etc. Membership would require answering short surveys as needed. It would give us a mailing list of reliable responders.
Originally posted by Matty The Drone
I even think you could do it randomly with the surveys or questionnaires. That way you get a good sampling of the user base. Maybe even just do it once a quarter w/ the surveys/questionnaires going directly to the admins. Maybe even randomly pick a small group of the users at random to put together some of the questions. I'm sure there is someone there at WGG that can put together a random user id script to make it like a lottery. With 2.0 coming out it would give you a good sampling of who's playing what, where's the flex being spent and so on.
Maybe could even go as far as to make a thread in the GLB main with the questionaire/survey so that everybody has a chance to see it whenever they want. You could even post the names of the users that were selected to the sampling group for that quarter. I'm not sure what a good number of users to send it out to per quarter would be, but not so large that you have tons of those as a company to go over.
Originally posted by EllisBell
I hear you on the randomness. I think it would be good to get some random users, we would want them to be dedicated users though, or at least users that have played consistently enough to have a good feel of the game. I don't know if publishing names would be a good idea, we wouldn't want to skew answers or give in to peer pressure about things. Changing it up every few seasons is a good idea too.
Just want to add that this is all me brainstorming and chatting with you, nothing official.
Originally posted by SikoraP13 DTD
I think this would be an excellent step in the right direction. Should have a wide variety both of newer users and older ones and in between for this focus group idea. Should be people, imo, who aren't already in a Mod/Tester position, since they already have a somewhat larger voice in the system. Should be a group of average agents and should be a public group.
Should have a handful of people that must remain active to remain in the focus group. Become inactive without notification of the admin in charge, you get replaced. Should have the gambit of players from hardcore to casual, and like I said previously, newer and older candidates.
ie. 3 Candidates who signed up in the last 2 seasons
5 Candidates from the past 5 seasons
all the way up to
50 Total Individuals in the focus group
This gets you a cross section of new and old agents.
I'd think there should be a forum that is open to the public for viewing, but only admins/focus group people can post. This will give legitimacy and transparency to the process, which is important.
The short survey questions and answers should be posted by the admins with the names of the respondents removed, so it can give the people an idea of how things are going and also to see how these chosen people correlate with the overall mood of the game.
Ie.
Locked thread: Season 37 Days 30-40 survey questions and answers
Discussion thread on Season 37 Days 30-40
I'd also recommend a private forum for the focus group and admins to discuss issues in depth if they have questions for the users. Those discussions should also get posted in the locked thread:
eg. Had discussion about QB Scrambling mechanics. Focus group collectively feels it needs review.
These are just my thoughts on it, but I think it would be a great thing to help bring the game forward.
Originally posted by SikoraP13 DTD
Thanks...I think this is a great idea by EllisBell and would definitely help alleviate the "game is ded" "Admins aren't listening" feeling that many users have come to experience.
My Ideas for an Implementation Strategy
-Focus group should be average agents, not agents who are already mods/testers/admins. Assign an admin to be the liaison to the focus group.
-Focus group should be a mix of new and seasoned, casual and hardcore agents to address concerns at all levels of play and make the game enjoyable for everyone. Agents must be active at all times during the focus group, and for 2 seasons before being chosen (unless you are a new player). If you go inactive, you get the boot (unless discussed with an admin beforehand)
-Members of the focus group should be publicly known, but their answers to the questionnaire should be anonymous, but posted by the Admin in charge.
-Focus group should take a survey every 10 days of the season.
Results of survey should be posted by an admin with the names not tied to them in a locked thread. A discussion thread for that period should be made where the average agents can interact with the admins/focus group.
Every season between day 40 and day 48, Bort should address the concerns of the focus group publicly in a state of the sim address.
Private forum for the focus group to discuss and get further input/have further discussion with Bort/Admins. The topics of these discussions that decisions have been made for will be presented in the state of the sim address each season.
Focus group participants will be responsible for being active in the forums, and providing updates in the discussion forums as to what is being discussed in the private forum.
Originally posted by Landry Skins
We should have an election with one representative from each network. Then one from the independents.
Originally posted by EllisBell
Again, this is just an open discussion and I am shooting from the hip a bit.
Just a couple thoughts on the above bullet points (I thought the others were pretty straightforward and mostly agreed with them)
-I am not sure if I agree with publicly acknowledging "focus group" members... we can, but I think that they could be hounded by people and I wouldn't want to make a user uncomfortable due to user harassment
-Every 10 days is probably too often, by the time you sent out a survey, a new one would be due. I was thinking maybe once a season or as issues/new items come up
-Bort probably doesn't have time for a "state of the sim" address each season, especially if there haven't been major changes. I think a different Admin could step up for the discussion in his place
-I don't think a private discussion forum would be necessary, the users would just randomly receive surveys sent to their email that they would be expected to fill out (that's how I pictured it in my head anyway)
It sounds like some of you want something a bit more extreme, while others would be more willing to accept general overall improvements in customer communication/site feedback.
Originally posted by Landry Skins
True but they can suck it up or form their own network.
A network has their personal ideas and group of people. They bring different ideas and methods to playing the game, which would benefit the game as a whole. Independents will obviously have scattered opinions and will likely be alone or close to alone on their ideas, or else theyd be in a network or have others that would support them.
I know a lot of good agents are against networks and I understand their side of that. But there is no "definite" opinion of the independents, which makes it hard for them to have a larger or even fair role to the networks.
Originally posted by EllisBell
Unfortunately I have to disagree with this statement, we have done mass surveys were 80-90% of the people answered certain questions the same way. I am sure that you could find that even in your network there are users with different opinions. If not, then are they just going with the group? What if certain groups try to push for changes that would adversely effect their rivals. This is feeling a little bit Game of Throne's-esque.
I think that a network electing a communications person is a good idea, someone who can keep them updated on changes/announcements in their PF. It's a good idea and something their members would probably enjoy. On our end we can do a better job communicating things, but we will always have to treat everyone the same, regardless of their coalition, network, etc.
Originally posted by hatchman
I actually tried doing something along the lines of a players association a few seasons back. I had gotten as many heads of the coalitions that I could in 1 private forum and had Catch22 in there on a regular basis to answer questions and concerns from the coalition heads that were in that forum. basically it didn't work very long because a couple people just wanted to argue with Catch22. and a few others just basically trolled to no end. so it was a epic failure.
The idea that TN is proposing has merit. but there isn't much of anyway to do it without some group or someone getting butthurt. for something like TN is proposing to work. it would mean whoever the people assigned to do the jobs. would have to take it very serious and really work to keep peoples trust. because as most of the admins and higher ups in GLB have seen once the paying customers trust is lost. then it is a uphill battle to win that trust back. personally I am all for something like this to help the users and improve the communication between paying customers and admins, mods and the GLB brain trust.
Thanks JD for making me Vice President back then lol
On a serious note:
I believe a central group could be put in place to stand in for public relations between the customer and the developer/admins.
Changes,updates,user issues could be handled by the group and overlooked by the developer and admins.
My thought in this is it would relieve the developer and admins from direct contact with the userbase and not leave themselves open for criticism.
The GLBPA would handle the situation with guidance instead.
What's most important....GLB....keeps face in future issues...
Currently we don't have that luxury.....
Proposed Chain of Command.....
GLB Players Association Chain of Command:
2 Admins relays to..........
2 Testers relays to...
2 Bugs Moderators relays to....
2 Lead Moderators relays to....
1 Representative from each network and a few independents including a few knowledgeable Dot Builders relays to....
The general public/customer.
Discuss
Notable Points:
Originally posted by hatchman
I don't think it could work at all. basically you would have to have someone running it that everyone on GLB trusted and respected. and that would be very hard to find. also the person that would be in charge would have to have people under them that everyone trusted as well. which is something else that would be hard to find. no offense to anyone here and I am not calling anyone out in general. but to me I wouldn't want someone representing me or the group of friends I play this game with. that was a forum troll or some trouble maker in general. if this was somehting that was implemented then it would need to be someone that is active and has alot of game knowledge.
and before anything is said no I was not referring to myself. I know I am a dumbass on this game and am not well liked for the most part.
Originally posted by BadgerPhil
Yeah, it has been brought up in the past in suggestions and deemed NGTH. Though like some NGTH suggestion, they were moved or left open in GLB Main to foster some conversation. Don't see what that would hurt, as long as the thread can stay on point.
I do agree with hatch... this would be very hard to do, since their are so many varying opinions on users. One users hero is another users troll. And the few that would be good at this, wouldn't touch it and/or most would riot if they did (if this were implemented).
I don't think it's a horrible idea, it certainly has merit, but it's a 'damned if you do and damned if you don't' scenario. Might appease the current "pitchfork" crowd, just to cause another to rise up.
Originally posted by SikoraP13 DTD
I'd argue the best shot would be to create a GLBPA with essentially a grouping of people, who are elected by their peers, and then those peers nominate and vote on the person at the top.
Originally posted by vladykins
Don't frget- trolling doesn't necessarily make one not a hero.
But I think this goes back somewhat to jdbolick's ombudsman concept. Someone not a mod, with no mod powers, that just reports on the sentiment (as well as the opinions regarding mods and such).
Originally posted by BadgerPhil
Oh I agree, some of the users most think are a troll I actually find pretty funny and smart.
jd is who I think would be great for that, imo. That's why I said, I'd doubt they'd take it and if they did, there would be a huge melt down. Just my opinion and I don't think jd's a troll, but I know others do.
He's generally on point, most of the time, he's just blunt and thinks a lot of himself. Nothing wrong with that.
Originally posted by slashxtreme
This only works if there's a direct conduit to the admin. Which might have to be a moderator (but not necessarily). We know people don't like moderation. We know people don't necessarily agree with what moderators do at all times. What I'd like to see is things not devolve into name calling contests and pouting contests when a mod rules against them. You're far more likely to get a good response from a mod when you go into it with a logical rationale.
Originally posted by slashxtreme
For this to have any substantive effect, you'd need someone who actually has a conduit to one of the admin or multiple admin. Basically a user representative on the board. I don't know if they'd be game for this though and whether that position would just merely be a thankless task
.
Originally posted by MV Thunder
This would work but it would have to be totally recognized both parts of GLB. customers and the Company .You are going to need some voices to speak for the user base and instead of fighting or yelling they would need to better enforce their argument with reasons and facts for the betterment of both parties.Like hatch was saying Very dependable people on both sides that would want this to happen and work for all and the betterment of GLB and or GLB2.Good Luck.
Originally posted by EllisBell
OK so I piece-mailed some posts because they inspired me a bit.... This isn't exactly what you are talking about, but, what if we did have a "focus group" of users (now don't get me wrong, we have used several site surveys, forums, Mods, Testers, even non-users etc in the past, we aren't flying blindly). These users would be available for quick pulse checks on site "morale" so to speak, game changes, suggestions etc. Membership would require answering short surveys as needed. It would give us a mailing list of reliable responders.
Originally posted by Matty The Drone
I even think you could do it randomly with the surveys or questionnaires. That way you get a good sampling of the user base. Maybe even just do it once a quarter w/ the surveys/questionnaires going directly to the admins. Maybe even randomly pick a small group of the users at random to put together some of the questions. I'm sure there is someone there at WGG that can put together a random user id script to make it like a lottery. With 2.0 coming out it would give you a good sampling of who's playing what, where's the flex being spent and so on.
Maybe could even go as far as to make a thread in the GLB main with the questionaire/survey so that everybody has a chance to see it whenever they want. You could even post the names of the users that were selected to the sampling group for that quarter. I'm not sure what a good number of users to send it out to per quarter would be, but not so large that you have tons of those as a company to go over.
Originally posted by EllisBell
I hear you on the randomness. I think it would be good to get some random users, we would want them to be dedicated users though, or at least users that have played consistently enough to have a good feel of the game. I don't know if publishing names would be a good idea, we wouldn't want to skew answers or give in to peer pressure about things. Changing it up every few seasons is a good idea too.
Just want to add that this is all me brainstorming and chatting with you, nothing official.
Originally posted by SikoraP13 DTD
I think this would be an excellent step in the right direction. Should have a wide variety both of newer users and older ones and in between for this focus group idea. Should be people, imo, who aren't already in a Mod/Tester position, since they already have a somewhat larger voice in the system. Should be a group of average agents and should be a public group.
Should have a handful of people that must remain active to remain in the focus group. Become inactive without notification of the admin in charge, you get replaced. Should have the gambit of players from hardcore to casual, and like I said previously, newer and older candidates.
ie. 3 Candidates who signed up in the last 2 seasons
5 Candidates from the past 5 seasons
all the way up to
50 Total Individuals in the focus group
This gets you a cross section of new and old agents.
I'd think there should be a forum that is open to the public for viewing, but only admins/focus group people can post. This will give legitimacy and transparency to the process, which is important.
The short survey questions and answers should be posted by the admins with the names of the respondents removed, so it can give the people an idea of how things are going and also to see how these chosen people correlate with the overall mood of the game.
Ie.
Locked thread: Season 37 Days 30-40 survey questions and answers
Discussion thread on Season 37 Days 30-40
I'd also recommend a private forum for the focus group and admins to discuss issues in depth if they have questions for the users. Those discussions should also get posted in the locked thread:
eg. Had discussion about QB Scrambling mechanics. Focus group collectively feels it needs review.
These are just my thoughts on it, but I think it would be a great thing to help bring the game forward.
Originally posted by SikoraP13 DTD
Thanks...I think this is a great idea by EllisBell and would definitely help alleviate the "game is ded" "Admins aren't listening" feeling that many users have come to experience.
My Ideas for an Implementation Strategy
-Focus group should be average agents, not agents who are already mods/testers/admins. Assign an admin to be the liaison to the focus group.
-Focus group should be a mix of new and seasoned, casual and hardcore agents to address concerns at all levels of play and make the game enjoyable for everyone. Agents must be active at all times during the focus group, and for 2 seasons before being chosen (unless you are a new player). If you go inactive, you get the boot (unless discussed with an admin beforehand)
-Members of the focus group should be publicly known, but their answers to the questionnaire should be anonymous, but posted by the Admin in charge.
-Focus group should take a survey every 10 days of the season.
Results of survey should be posted by an admin with the names not tied to them in a locked thread. A discussion thread for that period should be made where the average agents can interact with the admins/focus group.
Every season between day 40 and day 48, Bort should address the concerns of the focus group publicly in a state of the sim address.
Private forum for the focus group to discuss and get further input/have further discussion with Bort/Admins. The topics of these discussions that decisions have been made for will be presented in the state of the sim address each season.
Focus group participants will be responsible for being active in the forums, and providing updates in the discussion forums as to what is being discussed in the private forum.
Originally posted by Landry Skins
We should have an election with one representative from each network. Then one from the independents.
Originally posted by EllisBell
Again, this is just an open discussion and I am shooting from the hip a bit.
Just a couple thoughts on the above bullet points (I thought the others were pretty straightforward and mostly agreed with them)
-I am not sure if I agree with publicly acknowledging "focus group" members... we can, but I think that they could be hounded by people and I wouldn't want to make a user uncomfortable due to user harassment
-Every 10 days is probably too often, by the time you sent out a survey, a new one would be due. I was thinking maybe once a season or as issues/new items come up
-Bort probably doesn't have time for a "state of the sim" address each season, especially if there haven't been major changes. I think a different Admin could step up for the discussion in his place
-I don't think a private discussion forum would be necessary, the users would just randomly receive surveys sent to their email that they would be expected to fill out (that's how I pictured it in my head anyway)
It sounds like some of you want something a bit more extreme, while others would be more willing to accept general overall improvements in customer communication/site feedback.
Originally posted by Landry Skins
True but they can suck it up or form their own network.
A network has their personal ideas and group of people. They bring different ideas and methods to playing the game, which would benefit the game as a whole. Independents will obviously have scattered opinions and will likely be alone or close to alone on their ideas, or else theyd be in a network or have others that would support them.
I know a lot of good agents are against networks and I understand their side of that. But there is no "definite" opinion of the independents, which makes it hard for them to have a larger or even fair role to the networks.
Originally posted by EllisBell
Unfortunately I have to disagree with this statement, we have done mass surveys were 80-90% of the people answered certain questions the same way. I am sure that you could find that even in your network there are users with different opinions. If not, then are they just going with the group? What if certain groups try to push for changes that would adversely effect their rivals. This is feeling a little bit Game of Throne's-esque.
I think that a network electing a communications person is a good idea, someone who can keep them updated on changes/announcements in their PF. It's a good idea and something their members would probably enjoy. On our end we can do a better job communicating things, but we will always have to treat everyone the same, regardless of their coalition, network, etc.
Originally posted by hatchman
I actually tried doing something along the lines of a players association a few seasons back. I had gotten as many heads of the coalitions that I could in 1 private forum and had Catch22 in there on a regular basis to answer questions and concerns from the coalition heads that were in that forum. basically it didn't work very long because a couple people just wanted to argue with Catch22. and a few others just basically trolled to no end. so it was a epic failure.
The idea that TN is proposing has merit. but there isn't much of anyway to do it without some group or someone getting butthurt. for something like TN is proposing to work. it would mean whoever the people assigned to do the jobs. would have to take it very serious and really work to keep peoples trust. because as most of the admins and higher ups in GLB have seen once the paying customers trust is lost. then it is a uphill battle to win that trust back. personally I am all for something like this to help the users and improve the communication between paying customers and admins, mods and the GLB brain trust.
Edited by Team Nucleus on Oct 23, 2013 23:40:56
Edited by Team Nucleus on Oct 23, 2013 23:34:07
Edited by Team Nucleus on Oct 23, 2013 23:24:59
Edited by Team Nucleus on Oct 23, 2013 15:07:34
Edited by Team Nucleus on Oct 23, 2013 14:18:20
