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fogie55
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Anyone know how the blocking, pancaking, revcaking, break block interaction stuff is coded? Is there an order in which rolls take place?

Wiki/Q&A stuff is thin on mechanics of blocking interaction.

Logically it would seem the O guy has to attempt to block before that attempt can be broken, but many SAs/VAs talk about "avoiding blocks"...some posters have said to read "avoid" the same as "break" a block, but in some cases it must be possible to keep that interaction from happening at all by just moving around the blocker.

Does it work something like: 1) Blocker has to pass a vision check to see someone they should block--or do they do this automatically if assigned somehow? 2) Blocker rolls to make the block 3) if successful, defender can then rollsto try to break the block. 4) If block made and unbroken, blocker gets a pancake roll. Is 5) where would RevCakes would come in? Or like 3.5? With the Heavyweight VA, for example, it says bonus to "knocking down his blocker when breaking a block." Is that the same as or different from a RevCake? If so, is the roll to make a RevCake then before the roll for making a pancake?

Where and how do the differences between pass blocking and run blocking come in to play? Why are cakes and revcakes not equally likely during pass blocking and run blocking?

Why can some blockers, even non-linemen types like WRs, consistently seem to be able to block or at least impede 2 guys at once?

Sorry for all the questions, but its very confusing to me and frustrating at times.
 
Theo Wizzago
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Lemme start this by saying I have nothing to do with the coding of this game. That said I do have some idea... perhaps.

#1.)Since we're talking blocking, then I'd say it starts with a vision check to see whom is blocking whom. Plenty can go wrong here and this is where your "avoid block" will occur.
#2.)Once that has been done, then it's onto the big show. Here strength and blocking are the main attractions. These two skills combined (somehow... whether at the same time or hand-in-hand in sequence) compete against each other from dot to dot (the 2 dots engaged in the blocking, of course)... the winner determined by superior skill... unless the skills equal out. Then AEQ, EQ, SA's, VA's and lord knows what else factors in to "enhance" the outcome of the event.
#3.)Once all of that is done, we now get to cakes/revcakes. The looser gets one or the other. If the looser is an offensive dot (which is determined by who has the ball at the time of the block), then they get "revcaked"... if the dot is a defensive dot... he gets caked.
#4.)Should there be no clear "winner" in the block, then it gets to the "breaking block" part. More looks at VA's, SA's, AEQ, EQ, and anything else that fits now engender to resolve the issue at hand. If it is resolved, refer to #3 as to the outcome of the resolution.
and, lastly, #5.) Should the issue be unresolvable, then the two dots in question remain locked in a life and death struggle... which terminates upon the completion of the play... without any stats recorded since neither dot won anything at all. But they sure danced nicely!!!
 
TJ Spikes
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http://goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=2662504

there's a couple of significant "quirks" in the blocking code.

#1 there's no penalty to the engage roll, no matter how many defenders there are. this is why one lone blocker can block half a team. he blocks one, breaks off, blocks another, and then another... all one at a time.

#2 in addition, no matter what speed defenders are running at, they get slowed almost to a stop when they are engaged

#3 on top of that, defenders can bump into each other creating a "pile-up" effect

there was change a while back to where offensive players (like WRs) had to invest in blocking to be able to block. However, at some point in time, that change was reverted without notice or even announcement after the fact.

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=2184598&pbp_id=5893708 watch the TE downfield blocking - starts about the 40 yard line
that example is exacerbated by bad defensive pathing, but the TE does literally block half the defense just by engaging them one at a time in succession. There's no ticks, no fight rolls, just the engage roll over and over for free, where the blocker is scripted to "usually win that first engage roll."

when you see a WR with 6 strength and 8 blocking, do that on some sweep or pitch play... your reaction chain will probably something like

Edited by TJ Spikes on Feb 5, 2013 09:20:05
Edited by TJ Spikes on Feb 5, 2013 09:18:04
 
darncat
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Originally posted by TJ Spikes
http://goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=2662504

there's a couple of significant "quirks" in the blocking code.

#1 there's no penalty to the engage roll, no matter how many defenders there are. this is why one lone blocker can block half a team. he blocks one, breaks off, blocks another, and then another... all one at a time.

#2 in addition, no matter what speed defenders are running at, they get slowed almost to a stop when they are engaged

#3 on top of that, defenders can bump into each other creating a "pile-up" effect

there was change a while back to where offensive players (like WRs) had to invest in blocking to be able to block. However, at some point in time, that change was reverted without notice or even announcement after the fact.

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=2184598&pbp_id=5893708 watch the TE downfield blocking - starts about the 40 yard line
that example is exacerbated by bad defensive pathing, but the TE does literally block half the defense just by engaging them one at a time in succession. There's no ticks, no fight rolls, just the engage roll over and over for free, where the blocker is scripted to "usually win that first engage roll."

when you see a WR with 6 strength and 8 blocking, do that on some sweep or pitch play... your reaction chain will probably something like



that is NOT the TE blocking there
that is a bug based on defenders colliding, the pursuing ballcarrier glitch i think its called
it was supposed to have been fixed... when is this replay from?
 
darncat
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the player who is blocking also stops moving.
the TE isnt blocking at the end of the play, the defenders are caught up in a collide glitch

as for guys with 8 strength blocking anyone for an extended period of time-
i never see that, unless the guy he is blocking also has 8 strength, which makes sense to me...
 
TJ Spikes
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Originally posted by darncat
that is NOT the TE blocking there
that is a bug based on defenders colliding, the pursuing ballcarrier glitch i think its called
it was supposed to have been fixed... when is this replay from?

the pathing was fixed but not the fact that a blocker can engage as many defenders as he wants. watch the replay again.

the SS comes to a dead stop around the 45 yard line. all by himself clearly blocked the the TE. then there's a 3 car pile up. then the FS comes to a dead stop, and the other 2 dots continue on, it's not hard to deduce that the TE chose to block the FS. then there's a 5 car pile up. then the SS comes to a complete stop... blocked by the TE again. the almost immediately after, the RO comes to a complete stop. then a split second later the CB named 'full coverage' stops. then the TD is scored.

yes pathing did cause all those defenders to be in the same spot, and yes they were bumping into each other slowing each other down. but that doesn't change the fact that a blocker can engage and bring a dot to a dead stop.

==
as for the WR thing... that doesn't change the fact that for a long time WRs couldn't block well unless they invested in it. then suddenly they could. then about 3 seasons ago they couldn't anymore. that was the most visible sign of sweeping blocking code adjustments, verified by Catch22
http://www.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=2279557&pbp_id=2304517&flash=1
Originally posted by Catch22
Originally posted by RufusBrutal
Since we know the blocking code was nerfed for bWRs, was it also nerfed for bTEs & bFBs? How about OLinemen? Why the nerf?


Blocking code wasn't nerfed. Only thing we changed in regards to blocking was a requirement for blocking to have a much larger impact in the blocking role. Also just because a player isn't getting pancakes does it mean that they aren't blocking.

but the next season they could again, so the change was reverted anyway.

there's no complaining going on here. the OP asked...
Originally posted by fogie55
Why can some blockers, even non-linemen types like WRs, consistently seem to be able to block or at least impede 2 guys at once?


this is why

 
skibodragula
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i still am scratching my head on how when a HB is asigned to block and has no one to block he stands behind the QB and blocks him in the back
 
darncat
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Originally posted by TJ Spikes
this is why



no, thats a bug.
the TE never stops moving. if he engages that SS then he should have a reaction.
he doesn't, he never breaks stride one bit.

it doesn't look like there is any blocking code at all going on here- just a collision bug
 
TJ Spikes
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Originally posted by darncat
no, thats a bug.
the TE never stops moving. if he engages that SS then he should have a reaction.
he doesn't, he never breaks stride one bit.

it doesn't look like there is any blocking code at all going on here- just a collision bug


so you're saying that the collision at the 35 yard line where the SS stops and the TE keeps running is a double bug? Bug 1 being the collision thing that causes the SS to stop, Bug 2 being the TE just runs along not doing anything at all?

that doesn't add up.

here's another example, from a game this week, (happens to be against a team I DC for)

watch WR4 Randall "Vortex" Cobb
http://www.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=2279557&pbp_id=2307035&flash=1
at about the 45 yard line he clearly blocks the SS Troy "Lion's Mane" Polamalu, you see the bumping where the SS get's shoved and the WR doesn't break stride. then again at the 37-32 yard line he's blocking the CB Romeo Hughes (you see the CB bouncing) without breaking stride

the big difference between these 2 replays is, in the new one from the recent game, the WR in question is a L2 speedster with no investment in strength. in the first replay the TE had a large investment in strength.

 
skibodragula
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HB block in back on own QB....why is HB there?.....not bitching,just one of those GLB things that tweaks the brain
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=2289841&pbp_id=2109960
 
whodey08
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Originally posted by skibodragula
HB block in back on own QB....why is HB there?.....not bitching,just one of those GLB things that tweaks the brain
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=2289841&pbp_id=2109960


private game
 
TJ Spikes
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but also....

while looking for other new replays, i stumbled onto this one

http://www.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=2285581&pbp_id=2483159&flash=1

watch the FS, RI, and LO interaction that starts about the 50 yard line. at about the 40 the FS gets nudged out. then at about the 15 the RI gets bumped back.

and there's no blockers involved at all, which supports darncat's theory



Edited by TJ Spikes on Feb 8, 2013 18:21:26
 
Time Trial
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Originally posted by darncat
the player who is blocking also stops moving.
the TE isnt blocking at the end of the play, the defenders are caught up in a collide glitch

as for guys with 8 strength blocking anyone for an extended period of time-
i never see that, unless the guy he is blocking also has 8 strength, which makes sense to me...


Bug number 8: reopened as it is not fixed.
 
Time Trial
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http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=2286700&pbp_id=255224
 
fogie55
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Originally posted by TJ Spikes
but also....

while looking for other new replays, i stumbled onto this one

http://www.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=2285581&pbp_id=2483159&flash=1

watch the FS, RI, and LO interaction that starts about the 50 yard line. at about the 40 the FS gets nudged out. then at about the 15 the RI gets bumped back.

and there's no blockers involved at all, which supports darncat's theory


i've seen this behavior in the past and just assumed it was the dot in pursuit getting fatigued or stumbling or something... its happens even when there is just one guy pursuing-so not necessarily from guys running in to each other.

Originally posted by Time Trial
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=2286700&pbp_id=255224


this one looks pretty bad. watch toward the end of the play (about 8-bits 35 yard line)... definitely looks like FS and DE get tangled up and impede the CB along with them
 
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