Warrior General Games

can anyone shed some light on how this works from a game mechanics standpoint?

I have two dots where i'm interested:

one is a returnman who i'm intending to build with good jumping skills and some Hurdle VA. he's a rookie, so just starting, but in about 10 games including scrims/preseason only like two "missed diving tackles" so far. in this replay, for example, the missed diving tackle guy is either being dragged or the attempt itself slowed the returner enough that the stupid punter was able to come in and make the play. http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=2216115&pbp_id=359840

watched tick by tick, there is the diving tackle (the defender's dot turns solid red), then one tick where the returner moves forward, then the next tick its like the returner is pulled backward toward the tackler. I'm assuming this is the dragging. He eventually breaks free but was held up long enough to be denied the TD.

what would help him break free faster or avoid dragging the guy at all? strength? agility? jumping?

the other dot is is a LB with Rip the Ball...so that's more passive (relying on other defenders to be dragged), but still of interest as far as mechanics of a tackler being dragged.

how does dragging differ, if at all, on a regular tackling attempt vs. a diving tackling attempt? carrying and strength help break a normal tackle, jumping helps avoid a diving tackle--is it the same for avoiding/ditching the cling-on?

'Dragging' occurs when the tackler barely misses the tackle roll. So from a returner standpoint, you just need a better break tackle roll. Doesn't matter if it is a regular or diving tackle attempt, the break tackle score is still the same mechanic you need to adjust. Which for the most part is always going to be strength/carrying/momentum/SAs. Jumping is rather minimal benefit towards beating diving tackles, imo. They're naturally going to be lower quality than a regular tackle to begin with so you might as well just rely on a beasty break tackle roll in general. The only time I'd say invest in jumping was if you went for Hurdle (which stacks).

LOLbriar... jumping is p damn good for beating diving tackles. Although, I wouldn't bother bringing it above 50 unless you're going to invest in Hurdle (which OP is suggesting). Although, I'm not sure how awesome hurdle would be for a KR/PR. Definitely worth it for an inside/outside rushing HB as an extra bonus. I realize returners deal with diving tackles often, but I feel like fakes are the bigger impact for a returner. Good luck though. I'd love to see what happens.

The biggest problem for returners these days is simply holding onto the ball.

From what I've seen, any good tackle breaker has no problem beating diving tackles. If you're in the 60-73 range, sure, but anyone with a sizable break tackle roll beats diving tackles with strong regularity.

with decent jumping? sure... without jumping altogether? not so much

define: decent jumping

We may be in the same area. Minimum for me is the basic trained but no SPs applied value, so 30-33

id say at least 40 is decent jumping.

OK so...
A) break tackle/tackle avoidance will keep a tackler from succeeding
B) dragging results from the tackle roll being barely missed for either diving or normal tackle
therefore, C) isn't then possible that a dot with "decent' jumping and hurdle but not great strength/carrying/other would have it become MORE likely that a diving tackler ends up being dragged because a) not being to avoid tackles as well and b) jumping and hurdling lowering the make tackle roll, resulting in a missed tackle, but only lowered to the "barely missed" range? Am I envisioning a build that's somehow going to attract dragging?

Also, in the event a tackler IS being dragged--what, if anything, determines if the drag is broken/stepped out of/evaded or how long the guy being dragged can keep clinging? Clearly a tackler being dragged doesn't hang on forever--at some point either someone else comes in and makes the tackle or the dragged tackler lets go/the carrier breaks free.

Do make or break tackle rolls or some other rolls keep being made each tick to see if the guy being dragged can keep holding on?

Do jumping and/or hurdle help ditch the dragged guy (as in high stepping out of the grasp) or is the utility of these gone once the initial tackle roll "barely missed"?

Originally posted by fogie55

Do jumping and/or hurdle help ditch the dragged guy (as in high stepping out of the grasp) or is the utility of these gone once the initial tackle roll "barely missed"?

Don't know the answers to the rest but JUMPING helps you avoid an active tackler, whether standing or on the ground. Hurdle MIGHT do the same but it's mostly there to help the ball carrier to jump over (hurdle) pancaked dots. If you've ever seen a ball carrier run into a "caked" dot, they usually slow down and go around (as that dot could still make a tackle)... otherwise they either fall over the downed dots or they get tackled by them. Hurdle allows you to jump over them and thereby avoid the situation (usually). At least that's how I understood the explanation.