Warrior General Games

Elusive running style is unbalanced, and power running style is basically broken except at RB.

There are very few Power WRs in the Hall of Fame, and if you look over World League rosters, you'll find an overwhelming lack of Power WRs and TEs. That's because the game currently favors the elusive running style for all positions. Spin, Slippery, Quick Feet, and +% Break Tackle all combine to be more effective and more versatile than the power abilities like Bruiser, Power Through, Lower Shoulder, and YAC Attack. Why is that Slippery is always active, but Bruiser isn't? It's little things like this which unbalance the game causing it to favor one running style over the other, regardless of position.


My solution:

1) Get rid of the 8 yard from LOS cap on the Bruiser VA. Give it a Strength prerequisite instead, along with the current Carrying prerequisite. This will make the VA much more relevant for TEs and WRs.

2) Lower the Bruiser bonus to +2% per level on breaking tackles, bringing it in line with Slippery.

2) Give Slippery prerequisites in Agility and Carrying. You want to be super-slick? Better be super-agile first. You also better know how to hold on to that ball while gettin' all fancy. Right now, there are no prerequisites, unlike Bruiser.

3) Get rid of Quick Feet. It's way overpowered compared to every other VA. No prerequisite, no situational stipulations, and it adds a major % bonus to FOUR abilities. There is no defensive VA to balance it. Instead, break it up into several +% EQ bonuses. Make dots specialize in a signature move rather than give them a blanket bonus. This will likely cause agents to think more about where to utilize EQ and VAs.

4) Increase the risk of fumbling when using the Spin ability. That's what makes it risky in real football, just like every power runner must learn to cover the ball to avoid a fumble. This should cause more dots to consider having +% Avoid Fumble, Cover Up, or Mr. Reliable much more often to avoid having to raise Carrying.


Doing these things, or something similar, would not only make power archetypes more viable, but would likely also lead to fewer "cookie cutter" builds as dots specialize in certain areas. Right now, most WRs are Speedsters. A viable Power Receiver might change that. Right now, teams go with 2 Receiving TEs and 1 Blocker. A Power Receiver TE can be a good mix of both, or he can be a short yardage monster instead. It could even open up more diversity among FBs and HBs since now they could use power techniques on running routes beyond the 8 yard line, where as right now they are relying on elusive abilities for that.

If Power archetypes are not going to be granted the same flexibility within the sim, then what's the point of having them in the game?

gonna need to buff a whole bunch of DL and LB VAs and SAs if you do this

Not really. Offenses are already breaking tackles using the elusive abilities. I did some homework beforehand. FBs, HBs, TEs, WRs....they're all using elusive abilities instead of power. I checked open builds in both World League and the Hall of Fame. There's one dot who currently has over 226 BrTk on the season so far in WL. He's doing it using the combination of abilities I listed in the OP. So this isn't going to cause an increase. It would only be a lateral shift.

Plus, dots will take a hit on % chance on Fakes, Jukes, Spins, and Hurdles with the change to Quick Feet. That should make it a bit easier on the defense. If anything, it will be offense screaming foul because they would be losing abilities to the defense's advantage. To make up for that, they would need to either buff specific SA or buy the appropriate +% EQ. That means fewer ability bonuses than they can get now. That's also to the defense's advantage.

So if offensive dots are already doing it under a different guise, and they actually lose a bit of their edge because of the OP, there is absolutely no reason for defenses to start calling for more buffs of their own.

no this just makes defending everything harder for the defense. Like fogie said, defense will have to see some sort of buff ect to keep the balance

+1 To giving more opportunities for PBs to perform on the level of elusives, no matter what level they are...

http://goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=4949985 - The Negative Nancys came outta the woodwork for that one

Originally posted by DeeVee8
+1 To giving more opportunities for PBs to perform on the level of elusives, no matter what level they are...

http://goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=4949985 - The Negative Nancys came outta the woodwork for that one

lol you have power through, lower the shoulder, stiff arm and a lot of times dive for yards.. Thats pretty damn good imo. One problem you guys probably have is super slow pHBs, so when a tackle is broken they are slowed down way too much and the defense can close in.

Originally posted by SG✬21
One problem you guys probably have is super slow pHBs, so when a tackle is broken they are slowed down way too much and the defense can close in.

I'd have to agree. Speed is often neglected on power-backs. On teams I've been connected to, I've generally found that the more Speed our power-backs have, the better they do when running inside... helps you hit the hole sooner, helps you get behind the D-line quicker, and it lets you get that extra yard or two upfield before the LBs close in on you for the tackle.

But so many people who build power-backs seem to think, "Eh, he's a big bruiser inside, he doesn't need to be fast, he just needs to knock guys over." Problem with that is that no matter how big you build your power-back, the D-line dots are gonna be even bigger than you. And while you may be big enough to bowl over one smaller LB, you're not gonna bowl over two LBs ganging up on you, especially not after a D-lineman takes a shot at you first and knocks you off-balance. So, power-backs need Speed too. No way around it.

Fix ur builds.

Read the OP. I wasn't talking about RBs. I'm talking about TEs and WRs.

The reason why everyone went Speedster is because Power Receivers couldn't get open often enough to make a catch. Once defenses started focusing on Speed, they would zip right in on the Power Receiver to bat the ball away. A real Power Receiver should be aware enough to keep himself between the ball and the defender, giving him a chance to fight for the ball rather than having it deflected 90% of the time.

The OP is about de-buffing some of the Elusive abilities while unfettering Bruiser to promote a shift away from so much Speed in game. It's only a beginning, and not an end result. You have to start somewhere. It won't all happen overnight either. There are ways for a Strength-based receiver to get open, but it's not worth building if he can't gain extra yards after the catch. And that's because Speed-based receivers will generally cover more ground before catching the ball.

The point of having a Power Receiver is to wear down opponents. To suck away energy and morale. To slow down the pace of the game. To set up for the 4th quarter. While there are other ways to do that within game, it takes away style, creativity, and flair to have VAs, SAs, and EQ favor elusive builds as they do now. The current system promotes cookie cutter builds. Spin and Quick Feet are overpowered. Spin alone is more effective than Power Through and Lower The Shoulder combined, especially with the current bonuses from VAs. All sorts of buffs exist for Speed, Agility, and Vision. Few exist for Strength rather than Speed.

The way I see it, making Strength-based receivers can become much more viable by removing the restriction on Bruiser. Then by toning down the elusive bonuses, very little needs to be added to buff the strong guys. Like I said, Spin and Quick Feet are overpowered. They could use a little bit taken off.

On the defensive side, it would come down to builds rather than strategy, giving more emphasis to Hard Hitters. It might even get SA trees for LBs altered. Right now, everything is geared toward speed beyond the LOS, and that's a turn off for anyone who like "old school" football. In turn, that translates into reduced interest from new agents as they experiment with builds only to find their favored builds are shackled from the beginning.

I don't see a whole bunch of buffs needed. I just think bonuses need to balance speed and power to create a more rounded game. Right now, it favors speed, so that's the direction everyone goes with their builds.

+1 to this.

The game needs go diversify more, and not be all about the elusives.

doobas

Originally posted by SG✬21
no this just makes defending everything harder for the defense. Like fogie said, defense will have to see some sort of buff ect to keep the balance

actually it would be removing the nerf of the buff of the original nerf. Back to season one which makes perfect sense.

BTW +1 to OP and removing stupid nerfs. Would actually remove the need to arbitrarily nerf LB in coverage with WR's because the real attributes would be working as intended. You have a fast LB, he might get plowed. You have a strong LB, you might see him get burned a few times. Quit arbitrarily applying position to position nerf and thus buffing a position and let the attributes and skills do the work they are intended for.

its not about speed.... its the fact powerbacks bonuses end at like 8 yards while an elusive back's bonus is the entire field... thats ridiculous.

+1.

Originally posted by ProfessionalKop
its not about speed.... its the fact powerbacks bonuses end at like 8 yards while an elusive back's bonus is the entire field... thats ridiculous.

+1.

While I agree it's ridiculous, the truth is that power receivers generally have a harder time getting open because they have to sacrifice speed for strength and agility. When a speed receiver can have a much lower strength but still break tackles using a combination of Spin, Slippery, and +% Break Tackle - and achieve a higher break tackle bonus over the entire field - where is the incentive to build a power receiver?

Answer: There is none.

So, at the risk of appearing to be debating myself, I'm going to continue clarifying just what the OP is about since people keep bringing up running backs even though the OP says:

Originally posted by PhillyFossil


Elusive running style is unbalanced, and power running style is basically broken except at RB.

There are very few Power WRs in the Hall of Fame, and if you look over World League rosters, you'll find an overwhelming lack of Power WRs and TEs. That's because the game currently favors the elusive running style for all positions... (snip)



Even with Bruiser unshackled, power receivers would still be tough to build because of the need to get open to catch the ball. Tougher than building a speed receiver instead. So one thing I haven't even addressed yet is how to level the field so both archetypes can get open. Modifying Quick Feet might help, but there's only so much you can do before swinging the balance too far in the opposite direction or before giving defenses too much of an advantage against pass routes.

The problem is targeting. You have to get separation to increase the receiver's chance of being targeted by the QB. The more coverage nearby, the lower his chance of being targeted. If a power receiver is slower than the coverage, he needs ways other than speed to get open. Agility or Jumping are options, but only to a limit. He basically needs one of two things, which would only be available to the Power TE and Power WR archetypes on the offense:

1) A form of Superior Vision which gives him a bonus to read the coverage so he can find a hole to get open in when in traffic,

or

2) Aura of Intimidation - where his reputation for tough, smash-mouth football precedes him, causing weaker willed defenders to give him more of a cushion when running a route.

No offensive archetype other than a Power Receiver (note I wrote RECEIVER, not HB or FB, but mean the archetype common to both TEs and WRs) should be allowed to have these abilities because it would unbalance the game.

Currently...

http://wiki.goallineblitz.com/index.php/Frequently_Asked_Questions_%28FAQs%29#Will_the....SA_work_for_my_player.3F

If the info in this link is wrong or incomplete then...

http://www.glbwiki.com/index.php?title=Advanced_equipment#Out_of_Position_SAs

Oops....looks like that link is broken. So I guess we would need clarification on Out of Position SAs and EQ SAs from Admin or Support.

Personally, I think I can build a Power WR who can get open without these abilities. However, the options are severely limited, to the point of basically being a cookie cutter build. Even then, I have not yet tested a completed build, so I don't even know if my method would work as envisioned. So I mention the above for the sake of diversifying rather than gratuitously seeking a buff. Not everyone is going to want to build the way I do, even if my method ends up working.

From a defensive side, the abilities would nullify each other should the defender also have the same ability. The normal rolls or checks for Vision and Confidence to resist the abilities would still be in place for most all other defensive dots within the radius of effect.

Furthermore, I still maintain the Quick Feet and Spin are overpowered, and thus should modified to create a better balance. That would be in the defense's favor, not the offense's.

I also maintain that the % bonus of Bruiser should be lowered from 3% per level to 2% per level, further in the defense's favor since it means a better tackle chance than currently exists when Bruiser is active.

I would also like to point out that YAC Attack when maxed out cannot stack with any other break tackle bonus. That's because of the +75% bonus cap.

With the lowering of bonus from Bruiser, it is highly unlikely that anyone will ever be able to stack enough break tackle bonuses to reach +75%....which is perfectly in line with what is currently achievable using Slippery, which on average appears to be in the +50% to +60% range for most elusive dots. Lowering the bonus from 3% to 2% pretty much caps the break tackle power bonus around 60% by shaving 15% from the current potential bonus. I've estimated that 2 pieces of AEQ plus Bruiser (as it is now) plus Power Through and Lower The Shoulder currently have the stacking potential to generate a +75% break tackle bonus within 8 yards of the LOS before dropping back down to +30%. So the proposal regarding Bruiser gives all power archetypes the same advantage elusives already enjoy.

For everyone who seems to want to focus on Power HBs and FBs....You can already stack break tackle bonuses up to +75% within 8 yards of the LOS. Short Yardage Monster, Bruiser, Slippery, +% Break Tackle, Power Through, Lower the Shoulder....You can even combine power and elusive styles by taking Short Yardage Monster along with Quick Feet to gain +75% Spin, Fake, and Juke on outside plays and a +45% Break Tackle on inside plays, so combining those with Bruiser gives you a +75% Break Tackle on runs up the middle without the need for EQ at all. You guys already have the best of both worlds with just 3 VAs. Granted once you cross the LOS, you lose 45% from those bonuses, but you recover 15% from Bruiser (it was over the cap) so you can still get it back up to +75% with EQ and SAs from the LOS to +8 yards before it drops back down +30% again. So the power backs have use of their break tackle bonuses over a wider range of the field than any power receiver does except on a screen pass. Plus most of the time, power backs don't have to catch the ball before being able to utilize those bonuses.

That's why I'm not talking about running backs in the OP.

Um... Philly... there is a way to get "Power WR's" open... sorta. I had the very same thought when building mine. I didn't want just another glorified blocking TE at the WR position... although I knew he'd be used lovingly on rushing plays as he was easily bigger and stronger than the CB's, safeties, and even some LB's he would be going up against. Still... to have a WR that can't catch passes simply because he couldn't get open... simply because he was a Power WR and not a speedster... just burned at my butt. SooOOOoo... I made him as tall as possible and gave him plenty of jump. While he can't outrun 80% of most DB's and LB's... he catches about everything thrown at him because he's so freakin tall and big. He just out jumps them for the ball. I do wish to point out though that he did his best work once reaching plateau as far as a receiver goes... probably because I addressed jumping last as a skill.
Other than that, I do agree with your OP. When, at every level of play, every good and decent team owner and manager says, "Speed, speed, speed, speed, speed, speed, speed... and more speed.", then the game is highly unbalanced to that side of play and nobody is going to build the other archetypes much at all because there's no real good reason to.
+1