Warrior General Games

Originally posted by
Ball Hawk
This player has a nose for the ball. Each level of Ball Hawk gives a +1% bonus to speed, agility, and vision from the moment the player sees a pass coming until it is caught or dropped. Applies on offense and defenders in zone coverage.

Ball Hawk does not trigger until the player sees the pass in the air, and lasts until it is caught or it hits the ground. During that window of time it doesn't seem like vision would do much. Seems like replacing the bonus to vision with a 1% buff to jumping would be far more useful. It would make it useful for receivers trying to catch up and make diving catches on lead passes, and seems like it would help the deflect roll for zone defenders, and give zone defense a needed slight buff.

Vision helps reaction so it helps more than jumping in that regard.

+1

I dunno about this but I think Ball Hawk would also apply to fumbles on the ground as well as passes in the air. This player has a nose for the ball. seems to me to be the driving point for this skill.

-1 I like the vision better.

Originally posted by Theo Wizzago
I dunno about this but I think Ball Hawk would also apply to fumbles on the ground as well as passes in the air. This player has a nose for the ball. seems to me to be the driving point for this skill.

Does nothing for fumble recovery. It only applies when there is a pass in the air.

As for OP, how about keep it as is with the vision, but add jumping also

Originally posted by Bane
Does nothing for fumble recovery. It only applies when there is a pass in the air.

As for OP, how about keep it as is with the vision, but add jumping also

Isn't that how it was originally?

Originally posted by T♠2♠
Isn't that how it was originally?

It was 2% speed, 2% agility, and 2% vision originally.

Originally posted by Bane

As for OP, how about keep it as is with the vision, but add jumping also

Making it 1% speed, 1% agility, 1% vision, and 1% jumping would be fine as well. It'd probably be too strong that way though.

Originally posted by bhall43
Vision helps reaction so it helps more than jumping in that regard.

True, but jumping would overcome some loss to the reaction by being able to close more ground at the last second. It would also buff the deflect roll on defense, and it would buff the diving catch and jumping catch rolls on offense. Before you say loldivingcatch, In two games today I watched 175 receiving yards and 2 TD's go by the way of (diving catch attempt failed) on four passes.

isn't vision factored into the deflect roll? If so, wouldn't vision be > jumping?

Originally posted by Chysil
isn't vision factored into the deflect roll? If so, wouldn't vision be > jumping?

I think the arguement about vision is that it's already needed to activate the VA (I would think a low vision would make BALL HAWK almost worthless... can't react to what you can't see) and, as a skill. doesn't effect anything related to the action of BALL HAWKERY ( while catch would, or jump, or speed or agility). About the ONLY thing I could see a boost to vision helping BALL HAWK would be in helping the player take the most advantageous route to intercept the ball's flight. If Vision is factored into the deflect roll, then wouldn't it come down to which effects the deflect roll more... Vision or Jumping (I think both effect the roll... have no idea what the math is though)?

And to Bane, I know BALL HAWK does nothing for fumble recovery... I badly worded that statement cuz I wanted to add that to it's ability believing that "BALL HAWK" should apply to any loose ball or ball in flight (sans kickoff's and punts). Sorry for the confusing post.

Originally posted by Kirghiz
True, but jumping would overcome some loss to the reaction by being able to close more ground at the last second. It would also buff the deflect roll on defense, and it would buff the diving catch and jumping catch rolls on offense. Before you say loldivingcatch, In two games today I watched 175 receiving yards and 2 TD's go by the way of (diving catch attempt failed) on four passes.


i dunno ive seen guys with 80+ jumping fail diving catches so im not really apt to say 15% increase in jumping changes much of anything there. And honestly if jumping effects the catch roll more than vision does I certainly don't want to see this change as I don't want to see Ball Hawk become the kind of enhancement that is mandatory for builds.

I think it is fine the way it is currently for both sides of the ball.

Originally posted by bhall43
i dunno ive seen guys with 80+ jumping fail diving catches so im not really apt to say 15% increase in jumping changes much of anything there. And honestly if jumping effects the catch roll more than vision does I certainly don't want to see this change as I don't want to see Ball Hawk become the kind of enhancement that is mandatory for builds.

I think it is fine the way it is currently for both sides of the ball.

From everything I have read from Bort in Q&A's, Jumping is at least slightly more important to catching passes than vision is, but regardless, with all of the useful choices of VA's people have for receivers, I doubt it would be an automatic choice on the offensive side. On defense, it would still be limited to zone only, and as terrible as zone is (outside of dots in C2 or C3), zone needs all the help it can get. Aside from a commitment to make zones work it would be limited to safeties and nickelbacks primarily.

I doubt it would be something that a majority of any position would be loading up on tbh. It's too situational on defense, and there is too much competition from other VA's on offense.

Too much competition now for offense. You throw Ball Hawk with jumping involved on a Poss WR and lulz will result.

Originally posted by bhall43
Too much competition now for offense. You throw Ball Hawk with jumping involved on a Poss WR and lulz will result.

pretty much an auto catch if u mix that with ptp mr reliable red zone freak and Poss wr.

Originally posted by Demboyz
pretty much an auto catch if u mix that with ptp mr reliable red zone freak and Poss wr.

no cb would out jump that wr