Warrior General Games

This game is lacking attributes that are needed to make a more accurate display of football. Here is small list of ideas regarding new attributes. They are split into two categories one is skill point based, meaning that you can apply skill points to them. The other is Numerical based, meaning that they cannot have skill points applied to them directly.

Here is what I mean by Numerical attributes:

take block shedding for example. You need a few core attributes to be good at shedding blocks; you need strength, vision, speed, agility, acceleration, confidence, and blocking (bort has made comments about how blocking can help with DE's and such). Each one of these attributes would be assigned a numerical value in accordance to importance to the overall skill. Increasing the core attributes for a skill set increases it's value.So you're not spending skill points directly on block shedding, but you can invest skill points into core attributes to increase your block shedding.

Skill point based attributes

Power

This attribute would mainly pertain to quarterbacks, kickers, and punters. having these three positions hands tied by having just one attribute to explain everything that goes into throwing passes, kicking field goals, and punting is a detriment to the game.

Accuracy

For quarterbacks it should be split into 6 different categories. Left/middle/right/shallow/medium/deep. Real quarterbacks don't have the same accuracy to all parts of the field, and just because the guy can throw it really far doesn't make him accurate at that distance(vince young/rex grossman). The same thing should apply to kickers and punters.

Acceleration

One of the biggest faults of the sim is the lack of this crucial attribute. This attribute alone would do wonders for the game. Every player NEEDS it, for it is vital to every position on the field. This would have helped tremendously with the battle of nerfing the speed ends and tackles(would've ended the debate without any nerfing), because the OT's top speed wouldn't really factor into the equation in the 1v1 matchup if his acceleration was up high enough. AGILITY AND ACCELERATION ARE NOT THE SAME THING.


Numerical based attributes

Release/anticipation

This attribute would pertain to a players release/anticipation of the snap. Release for the offense(since they know the snap count), and anticipation for the defense. Getting off of the line at the right time is crucial for both sides of the field. This would play well with some of the VA's that are already in place. This would be a combination of vision and acceleration.

Catch in traffic

I realize this is in madden, however it is an attribute that is a good identifier of a true receiver. Not every receiver can catch the ball while being obliterated by defensive backs. This would be a combination of strength, catching, carrying, and vision.

Block shedding

Another madden based attribute that has weight in this game as well. This attribute would be a combo of strength, vision, speed, agility, acceleration, confidence, and blocking (bort has made comments about how blocking can help with DE's and such).

Separate blocking attributes

Blocking needs to be separated into two attributes. One for pass blocking, one for run blocking. Not every offensive lineman is as adept at pass blocking as they are at run blocking and vice versa.

Pass blocking would be a combination of acceleration, agility, strength, vision, and confidence.

Run blocking would be a combination of acceleration, strength, vision, and confidence.

Coverage

Coverage should be split into two attributes, man and zone. not every player is going to be great at both. More often than not they are better at one or the other. The skills needed to make this a numerical attribute would be speed, strength, agility, acceleration, vision, jumping and tackling. Since the skills needed are the same you just weight the attributes differently when considering which type of coverage they are playing(speed isn't as important to zone defenders as acceleration etc, etc, so they would be given different values).


Discuss

-1 Things are fine as they are. I'm doubtful that Bort would make such a drastic change anyways to something that would affect every aspect of the game and sim. Its just too late for that. Good write-up though.

Maybe a fresh start is what the game needs. The game is losing players, and at a growing rate. They made some serious logistical mistakes leaving these things out. Passing for example, isn't as cut and dry as throwing. It is much more dynamic than one numerical value can account for. To completely leave out acceleration as it's own attribute while trying to combine it with another? Huge misstep. I'm not trying to argue with you, just the point you're presenting.

I know I don't own any teams or players right now, but don't you think there is a reason for that? The majority of the people I enjoyed playing with are gone, there are only a handful of leagues worth playing in, the sim logic is incomplete from what I can tell(players stopping on kick returns when the returner doesn't catch the ball. That's a live fucking ball, everyone would be going after it like it was a million dollars and they were all perpetually poor people. I can site more examples too I'm just too lazy.), and the litany of reasons I don't continue to participate in the actual playing of the game can continue. But that isn't the point.

The point is football is an incredibly dynamic game, every aspect of it. You can't accurately represent football with such a limited amount of attributes. I don't care how many VA's or SA's you use.

Originally posted by happylittletrees
Passing for example, isn't as cut and dry as throwing. It is much more dynamic than one numerical value can account for.


Actually, actions in the sim aren't relying just on one attribute. Throwing, vision, strength, and confidence all have factors in passing. Rushing has carrying, strength, speed, agility, vision.. Blocking relies on blocking, strength, agility, confidence, vision... etc. The sim is more complicated that you think.

Originally posted by happylittletrees
Maybe a fresh start is what the game needs. The game is losing players, and at a growing rate.

A new fresh sim would just bring new fresh bugs.

I was talking about the simple act of throwing the football, it's still more dynamic than those attributes. people don't have the same accuracy to all parts of the field. what numerical value denotes that? you can have maxed out strength is that going to make your underneath throws to the left side of the field just as accurate as they are to the right? You have maxed out vision, so you are going to throw the ball accurately? how does the math add up there? vision in terms pertaining to the game is field awareness. look at tim tebow I'm sure he can see the spot where he needs to throw it too, and he can throw it a long ways, doesn't make him an accurate passer. These are mathematical holes in a system based on math. I mean you can't even make a left handed quarterback, or left foot kickers/punters. these are things that need to be accounted for.

edit: also by using your logic they wouldn't have added VA's, and a slew of other things.

I'm pretty sure that Bort and/or Catch have said that new attributes are NGTH.

-1 they will never add new attributes because it would mean any player built before they are added would be crippled. They will not have a "fresh start" and have stated such in the past. There will be no reset, no separate league for new players etc.

it wouldn't even take a fresh start. all it would take is adding points for some of the new attributes, and if you read the suggestion some of the new attributes I suggested would have their values created by what attributes you have your skill points applied.

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Originally posted by happylittletrees
it wouldn't even take a fresh start. all it would take is adding points for some of the new attributes, and if you read the suggestion some of the new attributes I suggested would have their values created by what attributes you have your skill points applied.

so there aren't any alg's on these new attributes?

Alg's?