Originally posted by saintedix
I posted this a while back (http://goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=4344509&page=1), and even though it got overwhelming support in the voting system, has yet to be addressed. Re-posting to get more feedback, especially if this game is to get out of beta...
Punt Hang Time
I made a note at the end of my kickoff coding suggestion about the punt hang time being all wonky, so basically my suggestion is that punts in GLB need to hang in the air longer much longer. In fact, GLB punts are about half the average hang time and double the horizontal velocity as punts in real football.
Originally posted by saintedix
P.S. ON PUNTING
When I was timing kickoffs, I was also timing punts. The average NFL punt hang time is 4.6s. The average GLB punt? A whopping 2.2s. How do you screw that up? A few punts even traveled 65+ yards in 1.9-2.1s. To give perspective on this, thats nearly equivalent to a baseball player throwing home from the outfield (time, trajectory, and speed). How this has been acceptable for so long makes less sense than Bryant Gumbel still holding a broadcasting job.
Now, there are going to be some issues if you simply change the hang time and speed given that the punt coding isnt perfect, but this is something that needs to be tested on the test server so that adjustments can be made to make punts more realistic. Returners should also leave very short kicks to bounce (see bouncing later), as you might see in real football, often times the returner waves off the punt and just lets it bounce.
Test results for punt time are shown at the bottom of the OP.
Returner Maneuverability
Returners simply dont move side-to-side to avoid tacklers on punt or kick returns (if fact, this is a problem with all of GLB, but Im only addressing returns here). Tell me the last time you saw anything remotely close to this in GLB:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJAlcMyVsdI&feature=related
Instead, GLB returners run headstrong into tacklers at full speed:
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1416670&pbp_id=11425524
There needs to be some work done on the pathing for return men to try and find more daylight by moving side-to-side or even reversing field. This is very common IRL, and players often even lose yardage, but it needs to be there. It will add a little more spice to returns when a returner actually has to find a path to the end zone instead of running in a straight line (maybe actually make super elusive do this).
Punt Return Formation
The punt return blocking as it stands now is pretty good actually. There will have to be adjustments made if/when the hang time is increased. IMO, there needs to be more chip blocks or push blocks while players are in motion to simulate a more real blocking environment, especially on the gunners. The gunner blocking will need some serious looks if the snap and hang time are increased.
One big thing that would address this is to make the "standard" punt return formation include two blockers on the gunners (this is, in fact, pretty standard in real football). This would give the gunners a much more difficult time getting downfield with the increased snap/hang time. You could also just program PP1 and PP2 to set up blocks in front of the returner similar to the wedge coding suggested in my kickoff thread, which would keep it from being a fair catch too often:
http://goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=4312920
Punt Blocks
There needs to be a way to block punts (and field goals for that matter). This cant be too difficult to figure out, considering there is already code in place for defensive linemen to knock down QB passes a similar code could be used for players who break through the line. There could also be VAs or SAs for STOPs that assist in this. Basically, there should be vision checks all along the offensive line to make sure everyone is picked up (often times punt blocks are the direct result of a blocking assignment going wrong).
This also goes hand in hand with the next topic:
Snaps from the Center
In GLB, from the time the ball is snapped to the time the punt is kicked is roughly 1 second. Real football? Anywhere between 2-2.5s. Increasing the snap time and time needed for the punter to get the ball away allows more time for defenders to get in for blocks, and causes a more realistic punt coverage where guys actually have to block for an extended period of time before sprinting downfield (this is actually handled pretty well in GLB as it is).
Punt Return AI
When ST-AI is introduced, allow the return team to choose between Punt Block and Punt Return (maybe variations of each). The offensive alignment would adjust based on the return team (or have a checkbox in the ST-AI that allows the punt team to ignore the return teams alignment). This would allow people to be more aggressive to block kicks while sacrificing punt coverage. May be useful for teams with poor returners or poor blocking.
Punt Bouncing
Punts should bounce a random direction when they hit the ground. This would allow for the punts inside the 20 to have a chance to bounce sideways or backwards ("pooch" punting). Simply make punts bounce 65% forward, 10% left, 10% right, 15% backwards (or something like this). There could be punter SAs or VAs that affect these percentages, etc.
TEST RESULTS
All results were timed twice with a stopwatch and the average time between the two was used (for NFL punts, I used DVR on timed punts). The difference is clear, see for yourself:
GLB
Hang Time Distance (yd) Vx (ft/s) Vx (mph)
2.09 67 96.17 65.57
2.34 57 73.08 49.8
1.66 49 88.55 60.38
2.37 58 73.41 50.05
3.26 48 44.17 30.11
1.76 50 85.23 58.11
2.10 62 92.53 63.09
(only first 7 of 30 test results shown)
GLB Avg. : 2.18 58 79.82 54.41
NFL
Hang Time Distance (yd) Vx (ft/s) Vx (mph)
4.76 62 39.07 26.64
4.43 59 39.95 27.24
4.15 61 44.10 30.06
4.57 55 36.11 24.62
4.82 67 41.70 28.43
4.61 49 31.88 21.74
NFL Avg.: 4.56 58.83 38.80 26.45 (real NFL average is appx 4.6 sec, so I think these numbers are relatively accurate)
Go ahead and time them yourself if you want to, even college is just about the same:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPXSzia2Zfg
Results: 3.88 52 40.2 27.4
I posted this a while back (http://goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=4344509&page=1), and even though it got overwhelming support in the voting system, has yet to be addressed. Re-posting to get more feedback, especially if this game is to get out of beta...
Punt Hang Time
I made a note at the end of my kickoff coding suggestion about the punt hang time being all wonky, so basically my suggestion is that punts in GLB need to hang in the air longer much longer. In fact, GLB punts are about half the average hang time and double the horizontal velocity as punts in real football.
Originally posted by saintedix
P.S. ON PUNTING
When I was timing kickoffs, I was also timing punts. The average NFL punt hang time is 4.6s. The average GLB punt? A whopping 2.2s. How do you screw that up? A few punts even traveled 65+ yards in 1.9-2.1s. To give perspective on this, thats nearly equivalent to a baseball player throwing home from the outfield (time, trajectory, and speed). How this has been acceptable for so long makes less sense than Bryant Gumbel still holding a broadcasting job.
Now, there are going to be some issues if you simply change the hang time and speed given that the punt coding isnt perfect, but this is something that needs to be tested on the test server so that adjustments can be made to make punts more realistic. Returners should also leave very short kicks to bounce (see bouncing later), as you might see in real football, often times the returner waves off the punt and just lets it bounce.
Test results for punt time are shown at the bottom of the OP.
Returner Maneuverability
Returners simply dont move side-to-side to avoid tacklers on punt or kick returns (if fact, this is a problem with all of GLB, but Im only addressing returns here). Tell me the last time you saw anything remotely close to this in GLB:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJAlcMyVsdI&feature=related
Instead, GLB returners run headstrong into tacklers at full speed:
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1416670&pbp_id=11425524
There needs to be some work done on the pathing for return men to try and find more daylight by moving side-to-side or even reversing field. This is very common IRL, and players often even lose yardage, but it needs to be there. It will add a little more spice to returns when a returner actually has to find a path to the end zone instead of running in a straight line (maybe actually make super elusive do this).
Punt Return Formation
The punt return blocking as it stands now is pretty good actually. There will have to be adjustments made if/when the hang time is increased. IMO, there needs to be more chip blocks or push blocks while players are in motion to simulate a more real blocking environment, especially on the gunners. The gunner blocking will need some serious looks if the snap and hang time are increased.
One big thing that would address this is to make the "standard" punt return formation include two blockers on the gunners (this is, in fact, pretty standard in real football). This would give the gunners a much more difficult time getting downfield with the increased snap/hang time. You could also just program PP1 and PP2 to set up blocks in front of the returner similar to the wedge coding suggested in my kickoff thread, which would keep it from being a fair catch too often:
http://goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=4312920
Punt Blocks
There needs to be a way to block punts (and field goals for that matter). This cant be too difficult to figure out, considering there is already code in place for defensive linemen to knock down QB passes a similar code could be used for players who break through the line. There could also be VAs or SAs for STOPs that assist in this. Basically, there should be vision checks all along the offensive line to make sure everyone is picked up (often times punt blocks are the direct result of a blocking assignment going wrong).
This also goes hand in hand with the next topic:
Snaps from the Center
In GLB, from the time the ball is snapped to the time the punt is kicked is roughly 1 second. Real football? Anywhere between 2-2.5s. Increasing the snap time and time needed for the punter to get the ball away allows more time for defenders to get in for blocks, and causes a more realistic punt coverage where guys actually have to block for an extended period of time before sprinting downfield (this is actually handled pretty well in GLB as it is).
Punt Return AI
When ST-AI is introduced, allow the return team to choose between Punt Block and Punt Return (maybe variations of each). The offensive alignment would adjust based on the return team (or have a checkbox in the ST-AI that allows the punt team to ignore the return teams alignment). This would allow people to be more aggressive to block kicks while sacrificing punt coverage. May be useful for teams with poor returners or poor blocking.
Punt Bouncing
Punts should bounce a random direction when they hit the ground. This would allow for the punts inside the 20 to have a chance to bounce sideways or backwards ("pooch" punting). Simply make punts bounce 65% forward, 10% left, 10% right, 15% backwards (or something like this). There could be punter SAs or VAs that affect these percentages, etc.
TEST RESULTS
All results were timed twice with a stopwatch and the average time between the two was used (for NFL punts, I used DVR on timed punts). The difference is clear, see for yourself:
GLB
Hang Time Distance (yd) Vx (ft/s) Vx (mph)
2.09 67 96.17 65.57
2.34 57 73.08 49.8
1.66 49 88.55 60.38
2.37 58 73.41 50.05
3.26 48 44.17 30.11
1.76 50 85.23 58.11
2.10 62 92.53 63.09
(only first 7 of 30 test results shown)
GLB Avg. : 2.18 58 79.82 54.41
NFL
Hang Time Distance (yd) Vx (ft/s) Vx (mph)
4.76 62 39.07 26.64
4.43 59 39.95 27.24
4.15 61 44.10 30.06
4.57 55 36.11 24.62
4.82 67 41.70 28.43
4.61 49 31.88 21.74
NFL Avg.: 4.56 58.83 38.80 26.45 (real NFL average is appx 4.6 sec, so I think these numbers are relatively accurate)
Go ahead and time them yourself if you want to, even college is just about the same:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPXSzia2Zfg
Results: 3.88 52 40.2 27.4
