Warrior General Games

So I have a question on exactly how this va works. It was introduced at a time when I was on a break from glb and I never saw any discussion on it that ensued, so I'm only going on what the description of it says and what type of DE it benefits most in my mind.

It says that for every level, it makes strength a % more important in BB rolls. So I always took it as the stronger you are, and the bigger the advantage you have in strength over your opponent, the better the VA becomes. Seems pretty straightforward to me.

But I've seen it interpreted differently by people who know what they're doing. I've talked to 2 high level DC's who both recommend it on low STR dots, which I don't understand. Granted one of them likes it just "because everyone else is doing it", but the other told me that it's most effective on lower strength dots. I can't wrap my head around it though.

I never wanted to get it on any dot who wouldn't have a significant strength advantage because I figured I'd be hampering myself by making str more important in a roll I was losing. But I've also seen WL level LDE's who have low 100s/110s strength with 15 BR who are effective, and certainly no WL RT is anywhere near that low in strength.

So can anyone describe to me how exactly bull rusher works in a way that makes sense to me?

http://goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=4375423

Here are some bort quotes about it

Originally posted by questio
Say a player has 100 strength and 100 agility. After bull rusher, would said player have more or less than 115 strength on break block rolls on run plays?
Originally posted by bort
Yes, I guess that's how it breaks down.

Originally posted by question
So does bull rusher actually hurt you if you've got significantly higher agility than strength?
Originally posted by bort
No, not really. It's an additive type adjustment, not replacing agility.

Originally posted by question
True or False. bull rusher is a slightly better version of Workout Warrior in that it is a flat bonus to strength, however it only applies to Break Block rolls.
Originally posted by bort
False. It actually adjusts the way the break block roll works.

Originally posted by question
bull rusher: Bort, can you clarify what bull rusher is saying? Is that a % bonus to Strength or simply that the equation to break a block is altered.
Originally posted by bort
Equation to break a block is altered. Strength's importance becomes higher. So if you had great strength but not so hot agility, you could use the VA to enhance block breaking to focus on your strength and get a better roll.

Interesting, thanks. So questions 2 and 4 are really what throw me still. He says that people with higher than agi than str are "not really" hurt by it, but states in q4 that it does in fact alter the BB roll. Q4 kinda goes with what I originally thought bull rusher would be best for, enhancing true str guys. But the "additive adjustment" part is murky as well.

I guess if you go LDE and have ~115-120ish str and 115-120 agi, it can be effective? Using what he said you could have an effective ~135-140 str or so on runs and the agi advantage still and not hurt yourself. But true spd/agi guys should still stay clear of it?

Originally posted by Menamino
Interesting, thanks. So questions 2 and 4 are really what throw me still. He says that people with higher than agi than str are "not really" hurt by it, but states in q4 that it does in fact alter the BB roll. Q4 kinda goes with what I originally thought bull rusher would be best for, enhancing true str guys. But the "additive adjustment" part is murky as well.

I guess if you go LDE and have ~115-120ish str and 115-120 agi, it can be effective? Using what he said you could have an effective ~135-140 str or so on runs and the agi advantage still and not hurt yourself. But true spd/agi guys should still stay clear of it?

Bullrusher can never hurt you, it is always a bonus to your break block roll. The bonus is just much more meaningful with high strength.

gotcha. Alright, well that makes sense, so I'll just go with that when making decisions on it in the future. Thanks.

From bort's quote the bb equation changes when a single point of bull rusher is invested. If strength then the other attributes, etc would suffer.The weighted areas of the bb roll become completely different. Now things like agility, etc cannot be worth as much in a roll. That changes a lot and opens up more questions imp

Originally posted by Rod Long
From bort's quote the bb equation changes when a single point of bull rusher is invested. If strength then the other attributes, etc would suffer.The weighted areas of the bb roll become completely different. Now things like agility, etc cannot be worth as much in a roll. That changes a lot and opens up more questions imp


Don't be fooled by Bort-speak.

Here is the sort of "equation change" he is talking about:

If the standard break block roll = Str*.4 + Agi *.4 + Vis*.1 + [other factors]*.1 (this is unlikely to be the true equation, I am just making this up as an example).

then the equation with bullrusher would read

break block roll = Str*.46 + Agi *.4 + Vis*.1 + [other factors]*.1



It's a net gain, regardless of your strength.

Originally posted by tautology
Don't be fooled by Bort-speak.

Here is the sort of "equation change" he is talking about:

If the standard break block roll = Str*.4 + Agi *.4 + Vis*.1 + [other factors]*.1 (this is unlikely to be the true equation, I am just making this up as an example).

then the equation with bullrusher would read

break block roll = Str*.46 + Agi *.4 + Vis*.1 + [other factors]*.1



It's a net gain, regardless of your strength.




I guess that's where I get confused. I've always imagined the BB roll in my head as constantly comparing the DL/OL who are engaged, i.e. something like - (OL STR - DL STR)*X +/- (OL AGI - DL AGI)*Y +/- yada yada yada in some form where they were constantly being compared. Which is why I thought a VA like Bull Rusher which made that STR component more important would be a detriment to low STR DL. But your thoughts in addition to Bort's comments make more sense to me now.

Originally posted by Menamino
I guess that's where I get confused. I've always imagined the BB roll in my head as constantly comparing the DL/OL who are engaged, i.e. something like - (OL STR - DL STR)*X +/- (OL AGI - DL AGI)*Y +/- yada yada yada in some form where they were constantly being compared. Which is why I thought a VA like Bull Rusher which made that STR component more important would be a detriment to low STR DL. But your thoughts in addition to Bort's comments make more sense to me now.


Yep, I asked Bort a few questions around that topic in one of the Q&As because I wanted to know the same thing...if he used "comparative matchup" equations or just straight "my roll vs your roll" equations. I was hoping for the former, but it appears he uses the latter.

Originally posted by tautology
Yep, I asked Bort a few questions around that topic in one of the Q&As because I wanted to know the same thing...if he used "comparative matchup" equations or just straight "my roll vs your roll" equations. I was hoping for the former, but it appears he uses the latter.



Nice, well thanks for clearing that up.

This always confused me as well. I got rid of it on my RE last season and put it back this season. Its ok against the pass but you can really notice it against the run.