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Forum > Pee Wee Leagues > How many plays should a defense have? -Pro Tips XD
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iStoner
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Essentially today in a team forum I found myself discussing something that I've actually often been criticized for in the past.

The number of plays a defense has is a very important concept in offensive scouting, and thus in defensive preparation.

There are of course huge advantages to having a large number of plays, a team that has a play for every formation and for every possible time it could be advantageous to make a change from their "base" play for a formation is commonly thought to be ideal.

I disagree... why?

Yes, as an offensive coordinator if your opponent has a huge amount of plays, its very easy to at that point dismiss the idea of scouting and just run the plays you know have worked in the past against the team (aka pretty much submit to losing the game, since obviously this isn't going to work).

However, with defenses that have a huge amount of plays its also known that if you do spend the effort to work out exactly when they will be coming out in a defense that you do happen to notice a hole in, then you can of course then use that to give you an edge ahead of that team, even though this does take a huge amount of time scouting wise, the opportunity exist. Why is it safe to essentially insert an output that says "100% of the time on x Down with x Yards to go with x Minutes left and x score difference" because, with a list of plays as long as my penis how likely is it that the coordinator on the other team is going to actually fix that hole?

Sure if the game before a team ran the same play in that scenario all game, scored a touchdown on it every time... it might not be a good idea to go all out on an opening, but if its been run once, or maybe even not at all... then you are good to go with little to no risk involved.

Now lets see how you would scout a team with say, 1 play per formation...

Essentially you run game scout, heck, why not? if they are going to make it so easy for you... but wait a second... sure this play has worked against them every single game before this, but who is to say its going to work this game?

A team with very few plays can easily shift to an entire different style of play in a very short amount of time, thus that 48 hour period of limitation isn't actually all that limiting to them.... if you take the "risk" of running say an outside run play that could easily go for a loss at any kind of high rate, who is to say that your not pretty much signing a death warrant on 3-4 drives... which is all it really takes to turn the tides on a close game (and if it wasn't going to be close... why the hell are you bothering to scout anyway).

Therefore my advice to you who may really just be diving in to the world of game planning, or even to you who are already burnt out to where you just can't spend the hours and hours and hours it used to take to win games...

Use less defensive plays.

I'm aware the more you use the better your defense will preform on a long term basis, but I'm also aware that if you have more plays than you are willing to update (each and every one) in a 48 hour period... then you aren't doing as well as you could be if you just used less.
 
zmj44
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I think a balance is where it should be.

I remember EDB's AI was so huge my computer crashed every time I opened it lol. He had a play for every situation, but only had something like 15 plays.

I have somewhere around 15 on most days sometimes 30 and sometimes 10
 
iStoner
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EDB was always one to consider every option as far as when to call this play and that one, but he always had a limited number of plays.

I used to demand only having like a total of 7, its been awhile since I updated a defense as far as not just randomly doodling for an hour... but I imagine my ideal defense now would probably have 20 plays... I just don't make it because I know I'm not going to be updating a 20 play defense anyway... so I'ma just hold out for playoffs since it seems my autopilot-like coordinating is going to land us at least one playoff game this season.
 
Time Trial
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The answer is 32 custom plays:

5 versus 2 WR formations (normal)
4 versus 3 WR formations (normal)
2 versus 5 WR formations (normal)
5 versus 2 WR formations (long yardage)
3 versus 3 WR formations (long yardage)
4 versus 5 WR formations (long yardage)
3 versus 2 WR formaitons (Special Circumstance)
4 versus 3 WR formations (Special Circumstance)
1 versus Goal Line formations
 
PING72
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1) You assume everybody sets up a DAI like EDB does. With 99% of DC's...if you are trying to look for trends in a 3rd down & 2-5 yard defense against a certain formation with certain personnel, you are trying way too hard.

2) If you have a lot of defenses, you don't have to update all 20 of them for an opponent. You just use different ones based on what the other team runs (or what you think they'll run). You can change almost your entire defense with very little effort. Not to mention it only takes about 90 seconds to create a new defense to specifically attack a team.

If you really want to beat a team with a lot of defenses, you're better off running a lot of offensive plays and changing your trends. A team with a lot of defenses will typically stack against what you usually do. If you mix up your offense they can't stack...or if you do have a trend, changing it will mess with them. Also, most teams with a lot of defenses are relying on auto-adjust. There are things you can do to mess with an auto-adjust defense.

 
iStoner
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I modeled my defensive strategy for many seasons after Time Trial who was well known for his overnight absolute makeovers of his defense, that lead to his team being capable of any day beating any team no matter how dominant they had been of late, and no matter how lackluster he had been of late.
 
e1iterate
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Originally posted by iStoner
I modeled my defensive strategy for many seasons after Time Trial who was well known for his overnight absolute makeovers of his defense, that lead to his team being capable of any day beating any team no matter how dominant they had been of late, and no matter how lackluster he had been of late.


lol you have 1 D for each formation. I've seen it before.
 
iStoner
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It isn't that I assume that, its just that it is the norm, whether you do or not most people have stick-to-their gun DAIs that over time adjust their plays...and every once in awhile add new plays and get rid of ones that have not been a success thus far.

I've never in my life been able to scout your team ping, and I can go ahead and say whatever your doing has and always will be a way to absolutely mindfuck a OC who thinks they can spend all day scouting and find out exactly what play someone is going to run.

Essentially though you are disagreeing with me but agreeing with me, all you do is rather than like me deleting your plays and saving over them as the season goes along and as you face new opponents you keep them and go back to them whenever you face similar opponents... I on the other hand was just saying to do the work game by game...

Yes ideally you should stockpile every stage of every play that has ever not be destroyed by any one single play so that any time you face another team that shows any kind of offensive trends that would be stopped by one of those defenses you can use it... but since I can't handle clutter when I'm choosing my plays, and am wayyy too forgetful to remember or properly label a defense for its use... I just make my plays before every game, and randomly misplace guys and fail all the time for it (at least back when I actually prepared for games)

I concede your way is absolutely the better way to do it... its just not something I was ever capable of
 
iStoner
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Originally posted by sigepmagicmike
lol you have 1 D for each formation. I've seen it before.


I have at times had 1 d per formation, I have also at times have had over 50 plays in a defense at once... you don't know shit because you saw some half ass defense I installed during the regular season on an lolsilver team.

Step off troll, your garbage... wheres your successful peewee team, that is right... you haven't had one.
 
Dead.Ed
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Originally posted by Time Trial
The answer is 32 custom plays:

5 versus 2 WR formations (normal)
4 versus 3 WR formations (normal)
2 versus 5 WR formations (normal)
5 versus 2 WR formations (long yardage)
3 versus 3 WR formations (long yardage)
4 versus 5 WR formations (long yardage)
3 versus 2 WR formaitons (Special Circumstance)
4 versus 3 WR formations (Special Circumstance)
1 versus Goal Line formations


O_o What.


Originally posted by iStoner
I'm aware the more you use the better your defense will preform on a long term basis, but I'm also aware that if you have more plays than you are willing to update (each and every one) in a 48 hour period... then you aren't doing as well as you could be if you just used less.


So use less plays if you're lazy? That's your great advice?

 
iStoner
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Yes, because obviously whether or not your "lazy" has any kind of implication as to whether you have the time to spend countless hours on a game.

Fucking move on troll.

Yes, if you are incapable or unwilling to constantly update plays it is a bad idea to have them being used regularly in your defense.

That is solid advice, whether your PERFECT self cares to think so or not.
 
Dead.Ed
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Originally posted by iStoner
Yes, if you are incapable or unwilling to constantly update plays it is a bad idea to have them being used regularly in your defense.


I disagree.
 
iStoner
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On what grounds? You think its better to leave unchecked weaknesses in your defense daring people to attack them?

Good call.

This all coming from someone who had a perfect season running a very small number of defense, and even if there actually were more than it seemed they were all very similar.
Edited by iStoner on Apr 10, 2011 23:27:13
 
Dead.Ed
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Who said I had any weaknesses?
 
iStoner
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lol, okay back to reality, thought for a second there you were actually trying to make a point, nope just mindless trolling.
 
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