Warrior General Games

What is the highest you have ever seen at end build?
I guess what I'd like to know is how high I'd have to go to call it experimental or does really high just seem like overkill?

I have one that will end with 89.16 nat agility and I would call that balanced. If you use AEQ I would say that 105-110 is experimental... any higher than that and you'll be hamstringing yourself as speed will probably have to dip below 130 to achieve that.

IMO you still want to have 130+ speed as a HB no matter what route you go.
Why do you want agility so high? What are you trying to achieve, fakes? More Spins? High Quick Cut and vision?

Originally posted by MileHighShoes
I have one that will end with 89.16 nat agility and I would call that balanced. If you use AEQ I would say that 105-110 is experimental... any higher than that and you'll be hamstringing yourself as speed will probably have to dip below 130 to achieve that.

IMO you still want to have 130+ speed as a HB no matter what route you go.
Why do you want agility so high? What are you trying to achieve, fakes? More Spins? High Quick Cut and vision?

This. Some of my test builds end with a 92-94 natural agility with speed at around 99 natural (+ enough bt's for a +58 in equip) but in order to end there I am taking from other critical areas.. sa's specifically. If 89-90 is more than enough then I'll leave well enough alone.

Regardless of what you do, any elusive back without at least juke & spin at a decent level is a waste of flex, at least in the current sim. All the speed and quickness won't get you anywhere if you don't have the spin & break tackle ability to get away from at least the first hit (CB).

Originally posted by Forbin
Regardless of what you do, any elusive back without at least juke & spin at a decent level is a waste of flex, at least in the current sim. All the speed and quickness won't get you anywhere if you don't have the spin & break tackle ability to get away from at least the first hit (CB).

pretty much this, HB's need SA's.
Gotta use that agility for something.

Originally posted by Forbin
Regardless of what you do, any elusive back without at least juke & spin at a decent level is a waste of flex, at least in the current sim. All the speed and quickness won't get you anywhere if you don't have the spin & break tackle ability to get away from at least the first hit (CB).

I should probably get a clear idea from what you mean by decent level. My plan is to have both these at 10 with equip. The rest in the tree will be at 7 with equip. Does that sound like enough? My next question would be strength. My understanding is the break tackle score is based on how much str/carry there is so I am thinking end build of 59 str/ 76 carry....and just to be clear, I'll have 2 bt% aeq's, 1 fake% and 1 spin. What do you think? Again, thanks for the help.

Originally posted by Kctwarrior
I should probably get a clear idea from what you mean by decent level. My plan is to have both these at 10 with equip. The rest in the tree will be at 7 with equip. Does that sound like enough? My next question would be strength. My understanding is the break tackle score is based on how much str/carry there is so I am thinking end build of 59 str/ 76 carry....and just to be clear, I'll have 2 bt% aeq's, 1 fake% and 1 spin. What do you think? Again, thanks for the help.

yeah that's fine, decent level generally means 6+ for me, 9-11 is optimum. Why is carrying ending that low? Try to get it to 80 by end game, what about vision, what are you doing with that?

Originally posted by MileHighShoes
yeah that's fine, decent level generally means 6+ for me, 9-11 is optimum. Why is carrying ending that low? Try to get it to 80 by end game, what about vision, what are you doing with that?

I adjusted the build to finish at 80 carry and this is where I landed. Whatdaya think?

Player Build
Position: hb_elusive_back
Season: 11
Day: 1
Level: 74
XP: 688
VA XP: 25
VA: 68
Bonus Tokens: 1330
Training Points: 0
SP: 0

Training Status:
strength : 2%
speed : 0%
agility : 0%
jumping : 0%
stamina : 5%
vision : 0%
confidence : 3%
blocking : 0%
throwing : 0%
catching : 90%
carrying : 1%
tackling : 0%
kicking : 0%
punting : 0%

Attributes:
strength : 59.71
speed : 156.01 (+58)
agility : 90.03
jumping : 6
stamina : 58.71
vision : 61.02
confidence : 51.71
blocking : 6
throwing : 8
catching : 37.7
carrying : 80.02
tackling : 8
kicking : 8
punting : 8

Top SA Tree: | 6 | 6 | 6 | 9 | 3 |
Bottom SA Tree: | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
Additional SA Tree: | 0 | 44 | 12 | 1 | 1 |

That's a lot more speed then i was expecting, not bad man, not bad at all.
Only way to make it better would be if you could cap catching. Makes it harder for DC's to effectively tag your dot, and allows you to have more success, either on the ground, or in the air (read: screens).

But other than that it looks good man, but wasn't it supposed to be a high agi experiment? I know I said that 90 is great and probably more than enough to have contemporary success, because it is. But this whole time I though you were gonna shoot for 100-105 Agi.

The only reason I say that is because I've always been interested in seeing how 100-110 Agi would affect a HB or WR... but up until AT's and multi-training were rolled out that was always just an impossible goal, but now we have the chance to do it, and I'd love to see such an experiment. I'm about to experiment with a high Agi, High Jumping WR to see how much Agi actually affects route running. But anyways, going off topic.

90 nat Agi will bring you plenty of contemporary success, especially with spin and juke where you're taking them and speed at 156 and carrying at 80. No matter what I say, this is a great build under our current definition of what an exceptional HB looks like.

I could probably make some small adjustments to cap catching. The high agi experiment is still in the mix. I just haven't come up with a build that I'm happy with yet....it just takes too much from speed. Tbh though, speed and agi in the build above could easily switched so that I'd end with a 148 speed and 98 agi and keep all other atts where they are. But that's still not really in experimental range....a work in progress. Anyway, thanks for your help, Miles.

I was just thinking this myself. I'm looking at my end build currently with EQ and everything on top I'm looking at 135 speed and nearly 98 agility.

I'm tempted though to swap out four points of EQ from speed, use track star VA (as it will have the most value) and have 135 speed and 102 agility. This will be coupled with Carrying of 78.4 and vision of 72.9.

There's also the thought that I could bring speed down to 130, have agility of 95 and have 71 strength. Would be a bit more of a rounded back then.

Bit torn at the moment of what to do.

Originally posted by magicalmrrich
I was just thinking this myself. I'm looking at my end build currently with EQ and everything on top I'm looking at 135 speed and nearly 98 agility.

I'm tempted though to swap out four points of EQ from speed, use track star VA (as it will have the most value) and have 135 speed and 102 agility. This will be coupled with Carrying of 78.4 and vision of 72.9.

There's also the thought that I could bring speed down to 130, have agility of 95 and have 71 strength. Would be a bit more of a rounded back then.

Bit torn at the moment of what to do.

don't take vision past 62.

Unfortunately that's already happened. After much deliberating I think I have my plan and where my end build will be. With some VA help...

147 Speed
93 Agility
59.7 Strength
78.4 Carrying
71.8 Vision
59.7 Confidence
56.6 Catching
55.7 Stamina
29 Jumping

10 in all the top SAs, 35% Break Tackle Chance, nothing in the lower VAs.

Originally posted by magicalmrrich
Unfortunately that's already happened. After much deliberating I think I have my plan and where my end build will be. With some VA help...

147 Speed
93 Agility
59.7 Strength
78.4 Carrying
71.8 Vision
59.7 Confidence
56.6 Catching
55.7 Stamina
29 Jumping

10 in all the top SAs, 35% Break Tackle Chance, nothing in the lower VAs.

That will probably be pretty good. As of right now, you would do better with less vision and more carrying/catching/stamina/whatever...but perhaps highish vision will one day be a solid investment. I also would like to see 1 fake chance piece in the build, but not at the expense of Break tackle

I would go down a bit on the first 3 SAs and use those points in Juke, saving your AEQ for Fake Chance%

Originally posted by tautology
That will probably be pretty good. As of right now, you would do better with less vision and more carrying/catching/stamina/whatever...but perhaps highish vision will one day be a solid investment. I also would like to see 1 fake chance piece in the build, but not at the expense of Break tackle

I would go down a bit on the first 3 SAs and use those points in Juke, saving your AEQ for Fake Chance%



Yeah, thing is I will be having two break chance pieces and one spin piece (I already have the spin and one break chance in place). So I could make the third piece a fake chance instead...