Warrior General Games

Most people value speed as the #1 attribute on any WR and most people put all WR EQ into speed. Is there any way a possession build (100ish speed, 85+ catch, jump, agil) can be successful in todays sim, and how would you set up and offense to use WRs like that

im not sure how i would use them, as im not, or have i ever, nor do i ever plan to be an OC, but i hope they can be successful. there is a WR on the team i HC that should be looking at a build similar to that... but much more extreme on the catching and jumping bit.

Originally posted by Worker 3
im not sure how i would use them, as im not, or have i ever, nor do i ever plan to be an OC, but i hope they can be successful. there is a WR on the team i HC that should be looking at a build similar to that... but much more extreme on the catching and jumping bit.

This. The catching/jumping should be more extreme than 85+ if this is the kind of build you are looking for. Honestly, the kind of build you suggest may actually fight fire with water, creating major mismatches between WR and CB. Because man-CBs are built more in response to the kinds of WR with 130+ Speed, the marginal benefit for Catch radius/ability are particularly high. Perhaps a new kind of WR is possible that doesn't attempt to fight simply outrun the CB. Of course, YAC will suffer, but these kinds of receivers, if catching/jumping is high enough, are essentially can't-drop targets.

This is an interesting idea, Nuge, even if it seems this would be sort of inherent in the possession build.

My lvl 55 guy is almost identical to what you describe. A bit more Speed and slightly lower Agility.

It works quite well, he was bottom of the Depth Chart for WRs but lead the team in receptions this season. He is what I call a Route Running WR. Great for medium length passing.

great discussion. Has anyone read in one of the guides where Vision/Conf factor into the check on the line between the WR and CB prior to the snap in regards to initial separation? My thinking is that if the WR can usually get the jump on the CB, separation is improved enough to where speed takes over and then catching and carrying aren't quite as crucial.

Can't find the forum now (of course) so if anyone knows where this is mentioned, please post.

Player Build
Position: wr_speedster
Season: 12
Day: 40
Level: 72
XP: 57
VA XP: 325
VA: 66
Bonus Tokens: 741
Training Points: 4
SP: 0

Training Status:
strength : 0%
speed : 99%
agility : 39%
jumping : 48%
stamina : 92%
vision : 76%
confidence : 40%
blocking : 0%
throwing : 0%
catching : 20%
carrying : 0%
tackling : 0%
kicking : 0%
punting : 0%

Attributes:
strength : 9.11
speed : 91.02
agility : 82.13
jumping : 63.02
stamina : 60.91
vision : 81.13
confidence : 74.18
blocking : 9.11
throwing : 8
catching : 66.18
carrying : 25.02
tackling : 8
kicking : 8
punting : 8

Top SA Tree: | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 |
Bottom SA Tree: | 6 | 4 | 8 | 3 | 6 |
Additional SA Tree: | 7 |

Pretty sure the 9 strength and 25 carrying would kill you as far as knocking balls loose or even securing them for that matter.

Originally posted by HATEMOBSTER
Pretty sure the 9 strength and 25 carrying would kill you as far as knocking balls loose or even securing them for that matter.

yeah, carry needs to be 61 (maybe 50 but 60 to be safe) and strength should be trained up to 25-35 or capped if you want to break tackles

SNATCH KAPA'A (Lv. 46 WR)
Ht/Wt: 6'3", 194lbs
Skill Points: 3
Training Points: 0
Bonus Tokens: 67
Veteran Points: 0
Next Level: 830/1000

Attributes
Physical Attributes
Strength: 49.04
Speed: 98.44 (+27)
Agility: 71.14
Jumping: 65.1 (+9)
Stamina: 33.44
Vision: 49.14
Confidence: 32.62

Football Skills
Blocking: 11
Catching: 81.14
Tackling: 8
Throwing: 8
Carrying: 40.32
Kicking: 8
Punting: 8

However I would like opinions about the Possession Receiver Abilities...what's worth a crap?

Sticky Hands/Route Run are good.

Originally posted by Nuge20
Sticky Hands/Route Run are good.

thats about it. some people will argue for jumping catch... but there are very few people who would support diving or 1 handed catch.

although, now that i think about it, diving catch might be good for scat backs on screens since they still have a tendency to be thrown low sometimes... but thats an entirely different topic.

Originally posted by Nuge20
Originally posted by HATEMOBSTER

Pretty sure the 9 strength and 25 carrying would kill you as far as knocking balls loose or even securing them for that matter.

yeah, carry needs to be 61 (maybe 50 but 60 to be safe) and strength should be trained up to 25-35 or capped if you want to break tackles

If you wanna break tackles at WR: 60 car and 50 str min along with a bt% piece.

If you don't wanna break tackles at WR: 48 str, 48 car is easily enough. ZZZZZEEEERRRROOOO Need to pump carrying higher in the current sim.

Originally posted by Nuge20
Most people value speed as the #1 attribute on any WR and most people put all WR EQ into speed. Is there any way a possession build (100ish speed, 85+ catch, jump, agil) can be successful in todays sim, and how would you set up and offense to use WRs like that

A true possession receiver works in toays sim, but the OC has to not be retarded, and the WR maker needs to be good at what he does. If you 77-cap catching and then 77-cap jumping, you will be in a good spot to actually be a possession receiver in tomorrows GLB. At least 100 catch/jump with equip is a good direction to go. The difference between 85/85 and 70/70 (along with 158 spd) isn't gonna be enough to make you good at dotball. Gotta be serious if your gonna make a poss guy.

Even on a possession guy, 110-120 spd seems reasonable. 70-90 spd guys can work too, but just be aware that they'll be SLOW when running routes.

As an OC you want to do a lot of hooks, and some fades are nice. Straight lines will work as long as your QB is -100 open man (which all should be). The biggest thing though is you need to isolate slow-ass possession guys on routes. You don't want them running slants, and you don't want them running routes that take time to develop. You put a 100 spd poss with a 150 spd guy in the same WR slot and you won't know wtf you are doing as an OC because you can't time routes for shit to attack coverage.

This is why specific build WRs (possession guys and break tackle guys) work better if you can get a pair of them and isolate them to a certain WR slot. I like to do this with WR2 cause I like the routes and they tend to block a little better than spd pussies.

Fwiw I do have experience using possession peeps. Currently both my WR2s are the slowest on my team (though still ~120 spd) and led by a bit in catch% in the WL. Back in s11/12 I had a guy catch 90% and 88% of his targets in USAPro using a 73 spd, 90 agi, 75 jump, 80 catch build with juiced jump catch and sticky hands.

Also, jump catch is underrated and along with sticky are your go to possession SA's.

Poss receivers aren't "sexy" but they can be VERY productive for an OC that knows whats what. If I could put 5 beastly poss receivers on my team I gladly would have the slowest receiving core in GLB.

Also worth noting while I hate vision currently on WRs (with 35 vision you recognize and react to the pass on the 2nd or 3rd tick of being thrown) in the next season or 2 it appears bort/catch will be adding a vision check which if you fail will make your catch roll go down a bit (though idk how much).

Also, bort is considering a "aggressive" option for WRs which'll allow them to attack the ball like CBs do to get better possession. Thus I'd suggest getting 60 or 68 vision on possession guys. Anything past that is redic though and a waste of SP I'm sure.

this thread needs more attention as it's resourceful and gives hope to guys who are totally pissed off with how they are performing this season.

the aim of my guy is to win the catch outright and get closer to the 1st down marker. that's all. to move the chains without the glamour. however, i am finding my guy struggling at Pro League to succeed in preventing a PD. he's not often thrown at as he isn't open from separation, however, whenever he is targeted he fails to win the catch roll.

high jump, 8 SH, 30+ catch% and i get this: http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1461251&pbp_id=3659956

MY ARSE!!

might want to think about bumping up RR to 10 and then throw in the slot VA also.
but I agree with Kappa's build and what Nuge said, gonna need decent STR.

and wiseman speaks truth. although I'm curious as to how many points he has in jump catch and if it's an AEQ SA or did you put the points in the tree?