Warrior General Games

I need advice...

http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=2088516

getting agility to 73
vision to 68/73? haven't decided
carrying 60/68
strength 60/68
conf? jump? stamina? I don't really know

carrying and strength before vision imo. return man gives a huge vision bonus, so you dont need as as much. only about 55-60 for end build (60, with VA bonuses will net you 96 vision... more than enough, imo) as for how much strength and carry, im taking both to 68 on my returner. as for stamina, thats going to 60, confidence at 50, and jumping at about 55.

I'd take carrying to 74 (after AGIL)...this coming from a guy that's fumbled 3 returns in one game with 80 carrying (~90 w/ ST VA) + Cover Up VA + Not Fumble% EQ.

I also suspect you could get away with pretty low vision, the range that KR/PR can see seems to be limited in order to prevent excessive stuttering.

You're only at 77 base speed, go back and take that to 80 after you get agility to 68. Then come back and go agility to 73, vision to 65, carrying to 73.

carrying minimum 74 imo

Originally posted by ChicagoTRS
carrying minimum 74 imo
not til near end of built imo

retire and use a HB

I disagree with most people on the order of vision and carrying, but strength before vision on a non-break tackle based KR? Yeah right.

Vision & carrying both to 68 as 3rd and 4th attributes, you take your pick as to the order.

Originally posted by Hagalaz
I disagree with most people on the order of vision and carrying, but strength before vision on a non-break tackle based KR? Yeah right.

Vision & carrying both to 68 as 3rd and 4th attributes, you take your pick as to the order.

you better get tripled plus strength on your end build or you're going to fumble every other touch

Carrying, carrying, carrying. Strength is overrated, especially if you go over the DvG barrier.

Originally posted by lilmikey

not til near end of built imo


imo you want carrying to ~80 by the end of the build...if you ever hope of playing top pro/wl and not coughing up the ball every other return...

and i agree vision for returners is very overrated...

Originally posted by PLAYMAKERS
you better get tripled plus strength on your end build or you're going to fumble every other touch

Yes, and that means you need to raise it quicker than your major attributes as well as those that are more helpful to you? Right.

Hmmmm alot of conflicting advice and idea. Me gusta.

Why in the world would I use a HB? HB's cost more flex and get worse SA's with the exact same ALG's.....

CB's get First Step, Change Direction, and Return Spec as the first three plus you can get Spin as the bonus which makes it cheaper than Spin for a HB. Juke doesn't even work on returns or if it does it works soooo rarely as to be pointless. So a CB gets to spend more SP's on the stats rather than having to waste SP's on prerequirements for the Spin SA....

As for the rest of the advice thanks guys the discussion is proving very beneficial.

the biggest reason i see for going with a HB is if you go with elusive HB, you actually get .5 ALGs on speed, agility, carrying and vision and .25 gains on strength, so ALGs will give you a bigger boost and leave you with higher numbers even though you maybe invested less SP... which means more SP for SAs.

As long as your dot is fast enough, returns are about:

1) The blockers
2) Not fumbling
3) Breaking tackles

Carrying is the primary attribute for both #2 and #3 and there's nothing as a returner you can do about #1. Agility needs to be up there to get your Spin on, but you don't need me to tell you Speed/Agi are important. Strength is less important than Carrying for breaking tackles, and waaaaay less important for fumble protection.

At the Pro level, you're going to get hit by a player with 15% to all attributes (spec teamer VA), +45% fumble forcing (power tackler VA), another +25% fumble forcing (AEQ) and probably a bunch of Big/Monster Hit SAs almost every return. Sure, you can counter with your own AEQ/VAs, but the Return Man fumble protection bonus is smaller than the Power Tackler bonus to fumble forcing. And even if they were exactly the same, ask yourself what it would take to win a straight up tackle vs carrying comparison.