How would shut down corner work for a LB. Have a combo backer mostly in coverage at LOLB. I have Ball hawk and football genius VA's maxed, super vision at 7. Also have make tackle % and Big hit AEQ's maxed for my level. Is there another peice I should look for or is this one worth it?? Thanks
andrew7taylor
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If your DC is willing to change his playbook and put you in man coverage, then it's worth it, because from what I hear, it's almost overpoweredly good.
Ilok
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I have a MLB and a coverage OLB and I use almost strictly % AEQ since there aren't any really good SAs for LB. My coverage LB has 15% break block, 17% deflect, 14% avoid fake and 17% interception. He has 42 tackles and 4 interceptions this season, and he still one boost away from being rounded out on slow build with jump and catch still a little low.
zero
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Originally posted by Ilok
there aren't any really good SAs for LB.
Disagree...
Defense general, closing speed, first step (absolute must), diving tackle (along the same path as avoid fake), wrap-up tackle, SV, SDC, CD...
there aren't any really good SAs for LB.
Disagree...
Defense general, closing speed, first step (absolute must), diving tackle (along the same path as avoid fake), wrap-up tackle, SV, SDC, CD...
Darren McFadden
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It's not logical to believe that avoid fake or deflect % pieces are better than SV or SDC.
Originally posted by Darren McFadden
It's not logical to believe that avoid fake or deflect % pieces are better than SV or SDC.
How so? SV is a re-roll ability of unknown value and SDC is and unknown attribute/PD boost, at least you know what you're getting with the % stuff, it's just more specific to one roll rather than a slight effect on many rolls.
It's not logical to believe that avoid fake or deflect % pieces are better than SV or SDC.
How so? SV is a re-roll ability of unknown value and SDC is and unknown attribute/PD boost, at least you know what you're getting with the % stuff, it's just more specific to one roll rather than a slight effect on many rolls.
Ilok
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I know closing speed was almost useless for my OLB. I ran two pieces of it almost his entire career and saw it go off like three times total, last season I traded one of those pieces for an avoid fake, and his production went up. I traded the other piece this season for a interception piece and his tackles have stayed relatively the same (actually averaging a tackle more per game) and I have 4 interceptions so far with all but 1 coming in a competitive game.
It may work better at some positions or on other builds, but didn't work at all on my guy.
It may work better at some positions or on other builds, but didn't work at all on my guy.
Darren McFadden
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SV is not a re-roll. It's a boost to all vision checks (ie any time AF% would come into play). SDC is a boost to attributes AND deflect chance. I don't believe for a second that 20% deflect from AEQ is even close to the max deflect chance from SDC.
tautology
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Originally posted by Darren McFadden
It's not logical to believe that avoid fake or deflect % pieces are better than SV or SDC.
Is it logical to believe that Break Tackle % is better than Power Through or Spin? Or that Catch Pass % is better than Sticky Hands? Or that Hold Block % is better than Run Block or Pass Block? Or that Break Block % is better than Shed Block?
It's not logical to believe that avoid fake or deflect % pieces are better than SV or SDC.
Is it logical to believe that Break Tackle % is better than Power Through or Spin? Or that Catch Pass % is better than Sticky Hands? Or that Hold Block % is better than Run Block or Pass Block? Or that Break Block % is better than Shed Block?
Originally posted by Darren McFadden
SV is not a re-roll. It's a boost to all vision checks (ie any time AF% would come into play). SDC is a boost to attributes AND deflect chance. I don't believe for a second that 20% deflect from AEQ is even close to the max deflect chance from SDC.
Originally posted by Iron Maiden
Super Vision
This player has a great football sense. He is far less likely to be faked out by pump fakes, head fakes, and jukes. He is also able to see a play developing earlier and may get the jump on an interception or tackle. This skill is far more effective when used by players with higher vision.
Additional Levels: Increases the bonus toward avoiding fakes and noticing developing plays.
Sounds like what Vision is doing to me. So it is there on every play?
Originally posted by bort
It is not a flat bonus to vision. It only applies in specific situations, and gives a bigger bonus than a couple points of vision ever would. It is also sometimes used as an "insurance policy" for when you fail your vision check. With Super Vision, you sometimes get second chance to succeed, with a roll against Super Vision's level.
So it's both a boost and a re-roll, but % has proven to be superior to similar SAs in most cases, and the AF vision check might be the biggest one your dot makes. (maybe not LB, but CB for sure)
In recent Q&A, bort also mentioned SV as the most overrated SA. Not saying I wouldn't use it, I have it on a couple LBs and like it, but for not getting faked, AF%>SV. I just don't know how many fakes effect LBs.
SV is not a re-roll. It's a boost to all vision checks (ie any time AF% would come into play). SDC is a boost to attributes AND deflect chance. I don't believe for a second that 20% deflect from AEQ is even close to the max deflect chance from SDC.
Originally posted by Iron Maiden
Super Vision
This player has a great football sense. He is far less likely to be faked out by pump fakes, head fakes, and jukes. He is also able to see a play developing earlier and may get the jump on an interception or tackle. This skill is far more effective when used by players with higher vision.
Additional Levels: Increases the bonus toward avoiding fakes and noticing developing plays.
Sounds like what Vision is doing to me. So it is there on every play?
Originally posted by bort
It is not a flat bonus to vision. It only applies in specific situations, and gives a bigger bonus than a couple points of vision ever would. It is also sometimes used as an "insurance policy" for when you fail your vision check. With Super Vision, you sometimes get second chance to succeed, with a roll against Super Vision's level.
So it's both a boost and a re-roll, but % has proven to be superior to similar SAs in most cases, and the AF vision check might be the biggest one your dot makes. (maybe not LB, but CB for sure)
In recent Q&A, bort also mentioned SV as the most overrated SA. Not saying I wouldn't use it, I have it on a couple LBs and like it, but for not getting faked, AF%>SV. I just don't know how many fakes effect LBs.
Homage
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Originally posted by tautology
Is it logical to believe that Break Tackle % is better than Power Through or Spin? Or that Catch Pass % is better than Sticky Hands? Or that Hold Block % is better than Run Block or Pass Block? Or that Break Block % is better than Shed Block?
Yes... but since no one knows the values assigned to each particular SA, it's all speculation and personal preference.
Personally... I'd take both for my guys. So no one is right or wrong these days. It just seems at this point % EQ is more reliable to the psyche since it's a quantifiable number.
But for the example given... I think where Darren is going is that the benefits of SV (based on the description provided) are far more encompassing of what a defensive player needs to do (a la positioning, avoid fake, adjustments etc) than a simple avoid fake %. The overall bonuses for each thing are probably less... but noticing the play/moving into the right position can prevent the offensive player from effectively performing that fake etc. But I know you know this.
Is it logical to believe that Break Tackle % is better than Power Through or Spin? Or that Catch Pass % is better than Sticky Hands? Or that Hold Block % is better than Run Block or Pass Block? Or that Break Block % is better than Shed Block?
Yes... but since no one knows the values assigned to each particular SA, it's all speculation and personal preference.
Personally... I'd take both for my guys. So no one is right or wrong these days. It just seems at this point % EQ is more reliable to the psyche since it's a quantifiable number.
But for the example given... I think where Darren is going is that the benefits of SV (based on the description provided) are far more encompassing of what a defensive player needs to do (a la positioning, avoid fake, adjustments etc) than a simple avoid fake %. The overall bonuses for each thing are probably less... but noticing the play/moving into the right position can prevent the offensive player from effectively performing that fake etc. But I know you know this.
Darren McFadden
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Originally posted by tautology
Is it logical to believe that Break Tackle % is better than Power Through or Spin? Or that Catch Pass % is better than Sticky Hands? Or that Hold Block % is better than Run Block or Pass Block? Or that Break Block % is better than Shed Block?
well just for fun
>Is it logical to believe that Break Tackle % is better than Power Through or Spin?
Break Tackle % applies on every attempt. Power through only applies when it's a successful roll for the SA to trigger. If you could have an SA that gave a bonus like power through gives, *on top of having 10 in power through*, I'd rather have that than break tackle %....of course both would be better.
>Or that Catch Pass % is better than Sticky Hands?
sticky hands has always been of dubious value and it's vaguely worded enough that it's questionable that you would believe it was better than catch pass % *except* in "clutch" situations, in which case surely you would have to believe the SH bonus is "better" if you average the likelihood versus the bonus (but if you average that versus the situational likelihood, obviously SH sucks)
>Or that Hold Block % is better than Run Block or Pass Block?
It's seems apparent would have to be more than double the bonus that hold block eq is to be worthwhile (simple analysis) and it seems apparent based on a lot of anecdotal evidence that the SAs are *not* 2x better. it's also not known whether the SAs are %s or raw numbers (ie shed block) which would mean that they become less effective the better the build is.
>Or that Break Block % is better than Shed Block?
we all know that shed block adds a fixed constant to break block rolls and is situationally dependent, ie pass block versus run block
Shutdown coverage should apply to *every* roll, and play, when in man. If you know your CB will be in man the vast majority of his career, you know you will get a deflect % bonus, and attribute bonuses, on every one of those plays. Plus it has been verified experimentally that SDC does seem to give a significant, noticeable bonus to pass deflecting.
Likewise SV is active on every vision check against a fake. Here there is also ample evidence that it provides at least a similar level of likelihood of fake avoidance to an equally upgraded AF%, *plus* a meaningful bonus to play diagnoses. The only problem with SV is that the AF% aspect is not quite that great until >4 at least.
Is it logical to believe that Break Tackle % is better than Power Through or Spin? Or that Catch Pass % is better than Sticky Hands? Or that Hold Block % is better than Run Block or Pass Block? Or that Break Block % is better than Shed Block?
well just for fun>Is it logical to believe that Break Tackle % is better than Power Through or Spin?
Break Tackle % applies on every attempt. Power through only applies when it's a successful roll for the SA to trigger. If you could have an SA that gave a bonus like power through gives, *on top of having 10 in power through*, I'd rather have that than break tackle %....of course both would be better.
>Or that Catch Pass % is better than Sticky Hands?
sticky hands has always been of dubious value and it's vaguely worded enough that it's questionable that you would believe it was better than catch pass % *except* in "clutch" situations, in which case surely you would have to believe the SH bonus is "better" if you average the likelihood versus the bonus (but if you average that versus the situational likelihood, obviously SH sucks)
>Or that Hold Block % is better than Run Block or Pass Block?
It's seems apparent would have to be more than double the bonus that hold block eq is to be worthwhile (simple analysis) and it seems apparent based on a lot of anecdotal evidence that the SAs are *not* 2x better. it's also not known whether the SAs are %s or raw numbers (ie shed block) which would mean that they become less effective the better the build is.
>Or that Break Block % is better than Shed Block?
we all know that shed block adds a fixed constant to break block rolls and is situationally dependent, ie pass block versus run block
Shutdown coverage should apply to *every* roll, and play, when in man. If you know your CB will be in man the vast majority of his career, you know you will get a deflect % bonus, and attribute bonuses, on every one of those plays. Plus it has been verified experimentally that SDC does seem to give a significant, noticeable bonus to pass deflecting.
Likewise SV is active on every vision check against a fake. Here there is also ample evidence that it provides at least a similar level of likelihood of fake avoidance to an equally upgraded AF%, *plus* a meaningful bonus to play diagnoses. The only problem with SV is that the AF% aspect is not quite that great until >4 at least.
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