Warrior General Games

Some say it isnt necessary..some say it makes all the difference.
anyone with any success pushing it to the 4th or 5th cap?

My WR does fine with 40 vision. If you want you can push it to 77, but I really have to believe you'll be making your WR worse off. There's not gonna be any concensus in this thread though. I'll say not to supermax vision, everyone else is gonna say "3-cap vision" for no reason...

Lets just go about it this way... What does vision do on a WR?

1. Lets you adjust to badly thrown balls sooner.
2. Is a factor in the equation of catching the ball in stride.
3. Helps pull off fakes.

Now, for your possession receiver.

1. The VAST majority of balls are going to be on target, ie no adjustment is needed, which makes all the extra vision just as worthless as the ballhawk VA on receivers. I'd also contend that when the ball is thrown badly, the vision check to adjust is fairly easy to pass and my 40 vision receiver has no problem passing it.

2. Your not fast, I don't care if you catch the ball in stride. its also worth noting that other attributes which will help you get open and help you actually catch the ball are more important than a small "in stride" bonus to your receiver.

3. Receivers rarely fake during routes anyhow, add in the fact that your boy isn't gonna be a superfake WR, and this point doesn't help you.

So imo, only train vision, don't pump SPs into it... *shrugs*

Originally posted by WiSeIVIaN
My WR does fine with 40 vision. If you want you can push it to 77, but I really have to believe you'll be making your WR worse off. There's not gonna be any concensus in this thread though. I'll say not to supermax vision, everyone else is gonna say "3-cap vision" for no reason...

Lets just go about it this way... What does vision do on a WR?

1. Lets you adjust to badly thrown balls sooner.
2. Is a factor in the equation of catching the ball in stride.
3. Helps pull off fakes.

Now, for your possession receiver.

1. The VAST majority of balls are going to be on target, ie no adjustment is needed, which makes all the extra vision just as worthless as the ballhawk VA on receivers. I'd also contend that when the ball is thrown badly, the vision check to adjust is fairly easy to pass and my 40 vision receiver has no problem passing it.

2. Your not fast, I don't care if you catch the ball in stride. its also worth noting that other attributes which will help you get open and help you actually catch the ball are more important than a small "in stride" bonus to your receiver.

3. Receivers rarely fake during routes anyhow, add in the fact that your boy isn't gonna be a superfake WR, and this point doesn't help you.

So imo, only train vision, don't pump SPs into it... *shrugs*

I took it to 60, but can see stopping at 48. I wouldn't go past 60

I'd rate it pretty highly since Bort has confirmed that Vision plays a big role in the "catch in stride" check.

Originally posted by Zurai
I'd rate it pretty highly since Bort has confirmed that Vision plays a big role in the "catch in stride" check.

So does having a real amount of catching. QBs rarely place the ball perfectly to catch it in stride, so I think attributes that help you actually get open or catch it are more important (especially for a "possession" receiver). imo.

Jubs McWidereceiver disagrees.

Originally posted by WiSeIVIaN
So does having a real amount of catching. QBs rarely place the ball perfectly to catch it in stride, so I think attributes that help you actually get open or catch it are more important (especially for a "possession" receiver). imo.



Clearly you've never seen plays from WWR when they were abusing Mentor to get +absurd vision and confidence. Vision does its share to let your dot get open -- which catching doesn't (it just makes the QB think you're open, even though you're actually double-teamed...).

Originally posted by Zurai
Clearly you've never seen plays from WWR when they were abusing Mentor to get +absurd vision and confidence. Vision does its share to let your dot get open -- which catching doesn't (it just makes the QB think you're open, even though you're actually double-teamed...).

Meh, WWR's best receiver doesn't have super-maxed vision, and from what I understand he's had a ton of production without mentor.

Catching is huge in terms of not getting every ball thats thrown your way deflected. Very rarely is your receiver going to be open enough that he avoids all PD rolls. You throw a 50 catching WR into the world league and he's gonna catch like 30% of his targets and have a fuckload of deflections. Anti-PD roll my friend...

Also, catching is at the bottom of the list of things QBs look for when choosing who to throw to. Idk who started the rumor that catchings major worth is as a buffer to targets. Fact, if a receiver has 100 catching he's likely to be near the bottom in terms of targets but near the top in terms of catch percentage.

Originally posted by Jack Del Rio
Jubs McWidereceiver disagrees.

I donno who your talking to or what is being disagreed with imo...

Originally posted by WiSeIVIaN
Idk who started the rumor that catchings major worth is as a buffer to targets.

That'd be Bort, who mentioned in one of the "how does throwing work, anyway?" threads that QBs are more likely to throw to a receiver with higher catching.

Originally posted by Zurai
That'd be Bort, who mentioned in one of the "how does throwing work, anyway?" threads that QBs are more likely to throw to a receiver with higher catching.

That is true, but bort also listed the 8 things a QB look for (in order of importance).

Catching was the bottom of those 8. So...um...ya.... Plus I've had 100 catching players on my team before who've led the team in catch %, but i had to put as a QB favorite target because he was never open enough to get the ball. Last season we had a receiver who had horrible as fuck catching but a lot of speed/agi, and he was targetted a shitload because he was getting some seperation.

Bort says a lot of shit but you need to read between the lines. With all else being equal, the higher catching guy will get the ball, but things like being open are weighted much more heavily...

Originally posted by Zurai
I'd rate it pretty highly since Bort has confirmed that Vision plays a big role in the "catch in stride" check.

No, he said the faster you are, the more vision you want and that it plays a role in catch in stride which is mainly the department for speedsters as possession guys get hit as they catch. He never said big role, he said it plays a role. He has said every attribute is important at one time or another and everyone jumps on the bandwagon, loads that attribute and then gets pissed they did. Take it with a grain of salt. Possession WRs are going to want soft capped vision and higher jumping as jumping helps with the CBs anti swat role.

Originally posted by WiSeIVIaN
So does having a real amount of catching. QBs rarely place the ball perfectly to catch it in stride, so I think attributes that help you actually get open or catch it are more important (especially for a "possession" receiver). imo.



+10. Assuming the QB throws a perfect pass, then the WR wants the high vision and catching to bring it in in stride, as the QB rarely throws the perfect ball, you don't have great odds of pulling it in stride even with high vision and catching. You want your QB to load up on vision so he can throw you better balls.

Originally posted by Zurai
That'd be Bort, who mentioned in one of the "how does throwing work, anyway?" threads that QBs are more likely to throw to a receiver with higher catching.

As Wis stated, good luck with that. This 8th (I thought it was 9th) checkdown is catching ability. This usually only plays a role in the last 2 minutes of the game when you are down by 40 points and your QB is getting creamed. He dumps it off the the high catching guy who doesn't get a look all game because his catching is so high and other stats like speed and agility are overshadowed by fellow WRs who have a ton more. Theory vs practice, practice wins out here.

I'm like batman and mobber is my robin imo. Together we fight crime in the receiver forums.