Warrior General Games

build closed.

Originally posted by doobas
http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=1496062

You spent on SAs way too soon... your primary attribute should be 60+ at this point IMHO. That's roughly a loss of a full level worth of free SP TBPH. He's young enough that retiring might be a good option, if you want to reach the pro ranks anyways.

Strength:56.15
Blocking:38.15
Speed:92 - will be 95 after 3 more level 32 upgrades
Agility:81.15
Catching:15.65
Stamina:32.65
Carrying:50.15
Vision:21.65
Confidence:21.65

lead block 3
catch ball + 10%
Scat back 10

Originally posted by Rage Kinard
Strength:56.15
Blocking:38.15
Speed:92 - will be 95 after 3 more level 32 upgrades
Agility:81.15
Catching:15.65
Stamina:32.65
Carrying:50.15
Vision:21.65
Confidence:21.65

lead block 3
catch ball + 10%
Scat back 10

Interesting build, but TBPH it's kind of counter-productive. The only real strength of an offensive FB is the power running game... going against that kind of limits you.

It's basically a gimmick build, hoping to exploit a weakness in an opposing defense... if that weakness isn't there, your build becomes pretty much useless. A traditional offensive build might not always do well, but they'll never be completely nullified (I.E. you may not have a great YPC against a good defense, but you also aren't totally reliant on creating a speed mismatch to be effective).

Besides the losses you take by working on speed so early, in the slow building department.

Originally posted by Warlock
Originally posted by Rage Kinard

Strength:56.15
Blocking:38.15
Speed:92 - will be 95 after 3 more level 32 upgrades
Agility:81.15
Catching:15.65
Stamina:32.65
Carrying:50.15
Vision:21.65
Confidence:21.65

lead block 3
catch ball + 10%
Scat back 10


Interesting build, but TBPH it's kind of counter-productive. The only real strength of an offensive FB is the power running game... going against that kind of limits you.

It's basically a gimmick build, hoping to exploit a weakness in an opposing defense... if that weakness isn't there, your build becomes pretty much useless. A traditional offensive build might not always do well, but they'll never be completely nullified (I.E. you may not have a great YPC against a good defense, but you also aren't totally reliant on creating a speed mismatch to be effective).

Besides the losses you take by working on speed so early, in the slow building department.

He's not a solo FB. He is the blocker for speed back and on KR/PR. He's doing quite well in that roll now and he's only going to get better as I work vision up to 2rd cap. I will also be working catching to 1st. He also forces teams to account for the FB in the passing game. Whether or not he gets any balls thrown to him, it takes away a defender from blitzing or covering a zone.

Plus I worked speed so early because it takes so long to train it from 8 to 32, and it was a good combination with both agility and stamina.

Also, I'm not done with speed yet. I'm taking it up further as I train vision/confidence the rest of this season and all of next. After that, I will cap both, and then switch to training vision/catching. By 48, vision will be 2nd capped and catching first capped.

Since he splits FB duty, stamina is good where it is.

Originally posted by Rage Kinard
He's not a solo FB. He is the blocker for speed back and on KR/PR. He's doing quite well in that roll now and he's only going to get better as I work vision up to 2rd cap. I will also be working catching to 1st. He also forces teams to account for the FB in the passing game. Whether or not he gets any balls thrown to him, it takes away a defender from blitzing or covering a zone.

Plus I worked speed so early because it takes so long to train it from 8 to 32, and it was a good combination with both agility and stamina.

Also, I'm not done with speed yet. I'm taking it up further as I train vision/confidence the rest of this season and all of next. After that, I will cap both, and then switch to training vision/catching. By 48, vision will be 2nd capped and catching first capped.

Since he splits FB duty, stamina is good where it is.

Teams are forced to account for my FB and still fail to contain him sometimes... take a look at my game log this season... there's some top teams on the list and only twice in 18 or so games this season, was I held to under 3 YPC. I broke 10 YPC four times though (five times if you count games vs guts). I'm no slouch catching the ball either.

My point is that I'm not a solo FB either. We have a blocking FB and my FB. I do on occasion get used as a blocker, which I can do adequately in most situations, but offensively I'm a huge asset. The build you posted has one benefit over a speed/receiving HB... no OOP penalty when working out of the FB slot. Aside from that small benefit, a speed/elusive FB falls flat on his face compared to a speed/elusive HB.

This is why the build is counter-productive... you give up your primary strength (breaking tackles) for a role that another position can do as well or better. It's gimmicky IMHO. Although, I'd still rather have a speed/receiving HB, they have all the supporting abilities that go with the role (even with the OOP they can still probably get a higher speed/agility).

Anyways, it's just my 2 cents.

Originally posted by Warlock
Originally posted by Rage Kinard

He's not a solo FB. He is the blocker for speed back and on KR/PR. He's doing quite well in that roll now and he's only going to get better as I work vision up to 2rd cap. I will also be working catching to 1st. He also forces teams to account for the FB in the passing game. Whether or not he gets any balls thrown to him, it takes away a defender from blitzing or covering a zone.

Plus I worked speed so early because it takes so long to train it from 8 to 32, and it was a good combination with both agility and stamina.

Also, I'm not done with speed yet. I'm taking it up further as I train vision/confidence the rest of this season and all of next. After that, I will cap both, and then switch to training vision/catching. By 48, vision will be 2nd capped and catching first capped.

Since he splits FB duty, stamina is good where it is.

Teams are forced to account for my FB and still fail to contain him sometimes... take a look at my game log this season... there's some top teams on the list and only twice in 18 or so games this season, was I held to under 3 YPC. I broke 10 YPC four times though (five times if you count games vs guts). I'm no slouch catching the ball either.

My point is that I'm not a solo FB either. We have a blocking FB and my FB. I do on occasion get used as a blocker, which I can do adequately in most situations, but offensively I'm a huge asset. The build you posted has one benefit over a speed/receiving HB... no OOP penalty when working out of the FB slot. Aside from that small benefit, a speed/elusive FB falls flat on his face compared to a speed/elusive HB.

This is why the build is counter-productive... you give up your primary strength (breaking tackles) for a role that another position can do as well or better. It's gimmicky IMHO. Although, I'd still rather have a speed/receiving HB, they have all the supporting abilities that go with the role (even with the OOP they can still probably get a higher speed/agility).

Anyways, it's just my 2 cents.

First, my FB is not designed to get carries. I don't plan on him ever getting any carries. The power FB on the team will get the carries. The only time my FB is designed to get the ball is receiving.

IMO - he should be rated based on job he is designed to fill. I definately made a couple mistakes when building him, some of it based on impatience. If people think the build is a 4 or 5 out of 10 for the role he is designed for, then so be it. However, what you call a gimmick player, I call a role player. I'm not looking for stats, I'm looking to help the team win.

Time will tell how he works out, but here is why he is being built like he is.

Blocking -
55 strength and 35 blocking is plenty for blocking DBs and OLBs when blocking for an elusive back. You don't have to pancake defenders and you don't have to hold blocks for long periods of time. You only have to get to defenders and occupy them long enough for the HB to get by them.

Scat Back (receiving)
The auto level gains a FB gets in agility, strength, and carrying is greater than what a HB gets in speed, agility, strength, and carrying. It is very unlikely a HB will get to higher agility than my FB. I 3rd capped it off the bat and the level gains are higher. He has 78.15 natural agility at level 33.

At level 48, my FB will have 109 speed and 83 agility. With scat back it becomes 120/95 while running routes. Now you have plays with a speed TE, an scat back HB, and a scat back FB all with over 110 speed and 80 agility running routes. Unless you are going to use a nickel defense and open yourself up to the power rushing game, you have to cover one of them with a LB. That's tough pass coverage duty for a LB.

(also, I want to see if a FB can actually get enough speed and agility to make the FB long routes viable.)

Originally posted by Rage Kinard

Scat Back (receiving)
The auto level gains a FB gets in agility, strength, and carrying is greater than what a HB gets in speed, agility, strength, and carrying. It is very unlikely a HB will get to higher agility than my FB. I 3rd capped it off the bat and the level gains are higher. He has 78.15 natural agility at level 33.

At level 48, my FB will have 109 speed and 83 agility. With scat back it becomes 120/95 while running routes. Now you have plays with a speed TE, an scat back HB, and a scat back FB all with over 110 speed and 80 agility running routes. Unless you are going to use a nickel defense and open yourself up to the power rushing game, you have to cover one of them with a LB. That's tough pass coverage duty for a LB.

(also, I want to see if a FB can actually get enough speed and agility to make the FB long routes viable.)


I like the idea of your build, and think it will work well. The problem I see is that you could have a fullback that is also strong. It's not too much of an investment to get strength to 60 or 68 early on, and then benefit from level gains. In my opinion, a 75+ strength fullback with 100+ speed and 80+ agility and 65+ carrying is going to be a better receiver with Bruiser, YAC and Scat Back than a 60 strength, 110 speed, 80+ agility fullback.

It will work either way and teams will have to dedicate players to cover your fullback, but I think Warlock is pointing out you can have your cake and eat it too by building slightly differently and maximizing the nice auto level gains fullbacks get earlier. A 75 strength, 70 carrying fullback with 100 speed will make a pretty decent tackle breaking receiver....as well as a tackle breaking "powerback".

If you want to help the team be successful, the role you're building him for is covered by other builds. Blocking for elusive backs should be done by blocking build FBs with max "outside blocker". Catching out of the FB slot should be handled by the offensive build FBs.

My FB has "scat back" maxed out, recently I tried a second set of speed EQ, my speed with SB was ~110... the change was hardly noticeable from before I added 20+ speed in EQ. Granted my agility isn't very good, but in all honesty I think that there's a speed limiter on some positions... I noticed more a difference when I went from 70-80 speed, then I did from 80-95. Plus the routes took way too long to develop IMHO, at least before you start to get open.

Teams don't really have the room for 3 FBs on their roster, especially if one of them isn't a good blocker. At least if you could block well, they could use you on special teams (which is where my FB gets a decent amount of his playing time). It's hard enough giving everyone adequate playing time... good luck getting 3 FBs enough snaps, especially if one is utterly useless on special teams. It's just redundant TBPH. Find me a well built blocking FB with maxed "outside blocker" who has trouble blocking for an elusive back. Don't show me the clowns who run around with 100+ strength either, they're not well built blocking FBs (they're linemen in FB clothes).

Anyways, I hope you have or find a system that will utilize your guy... I just don't see the need for that much of a specialized role. Your build is basically hoping to burn coverage for a TD to be effective (your team will need a pretty good OL and a game plan, which can become utterly useless, if they have a LB who can cover you... like the Santiago Benitos had, when I was at 110 speed).

Like so...

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=590609&pbp_id=9713739
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=590609&pbp_id=9713810
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=590609&pbp_id=9713937

Just trying to save you the headache is all.

Originally posted by shull


I like the idea of your build, and think it will work well. The problem I see is that you could have a fullback that is also strong. It's not too much of an investment to get strength to 60 or 68 early on, and then benefit from level gains. In my opinion, a 75+ strength fullback with 100+ speed and 80+ agility and 65+ carrying is going to be a better receiver with Bruiser, YAC and Scat Back than a 60 strength, 110 speed, 80+ agility fullback.

It will work either way and teams will have to dedicate players to cover your fullback, but I think Warlock is pointing out you can have your cake and eat it too by building slightly differently and maximizing the nice auto level gains fullbacks get earlier. A 75 strength, 70 carrying fullback with 100 speed will make a pretty decent tackle breaking receiver....as well as a tackle breaking "powerback".

That is very legitimate criticism. I can definately see your point. However, LBs (especially OLBs) often have 105 -110 speed, and over 70 agility. They shouldn't have much problem covering a 100 speed 70 agility HB. Even with scat back maxed, your base speed is only going to be 75 at most so you go to 111/81. A 105/70 can cover a 111/81 because of starting position and closing ability from Ball Hawk.

You limit your FB to the short routes (basically the strong I FB short play and routes where he stays behind the LOS) or hoping nobody is assigned to cover him.

The jump from 111 speed/81 agility to 121 speed/95 agility is rather large. You accelerate faster and hit a higher top speed faster. Much harder for a LB with 110 speed and 75 agility to cover a 121/95 than a 110/81. And the 121/95 is at level 48. At level 56 that becomes 125/97.

Plus it isn't like he has no strength or carrying. I capped strength and carrying right after 3rd capping agility. He will end up with around 60 strength and 55 carrrying even without sp assignment, which I could do later. If I add power through, he can still break DB tackles.

When it comes to blocking, he doesn't need to block up the middle. There is another FB to do that job. He only blocks on pitches, screens, and kick returns. His strength and blocking are high enough for that role, especially since outside blocker and downfield blocker are going to be his 2nd and 3rd SAs.