Goal Line Blitz - American Football MMORPG

Madd_Maxx
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Jun 29, 2009 14:46:28

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Whats everyone's thoughts on "Sure Tackler" VA?

Says "It doesn't matter how you stop him, as long as you stop him. When failing a make tackle check, the Sure Tackler ability gives this player a second chance to retry the roll. Each level gives a +4% chance to force both the tackler and ball carrier to reroll.

This VA tells me that a Defensive player has to pass a roll check to even make a tackle attempt.

I would think this would be great for a Dlineman as it gives you a strong opportunity to make another tackle check. One thing I notice with Dlineman is that it seems the power HB's often teleport through the dlinemen. This VA gives that Dlineman a second chance to make a tackle check....could increase tackling numbers for Defensive linemen who always seem to be around the ball carrier.

Edited by Madd_Maxx on Jun 29, 2009 14:48:01

CapnEnnui
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Jun 29, 2009 15:37:28

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Pretty sure "make tackle check" means succeeding at an attempt.

dangriff
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Jun 29, 2009 15:52:32

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right - it does NOT mean you auto get two rolls on a tackle. Only if your first tackle is "broken" do you get a second.

So if you are getting blocked or pancaked, it does not matter that you get 2 rolls if you cannot make an attempt on the first...

Madd_Maxx
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Jun 29, 2009 15:56:35

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Originally posted by CapnEnnui
Pretty sure "make tackle check" means succeeding at an attempt.

then why is it that HB's can run through a Dlineman and it not be called a missed tackle? Seems to me that the Dlineman doesnt make a tackle attempt.

This play for example...the SS is standing there and nothing happens and the HB runs through him...no missed tackle on the play. Doesnt this mean that the SS failed a tackle "check"?

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=589572&pbp_id=6776847

Edited by Madd_Maxx on Jun 29, 2009 16:01:35

Edited by Madd_Maxx on Jun 29, 2009 16:01:07

Madd_Maxx
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Jun 29, 2009 16:00:22

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Originally posted by dangriff
Only if your first tackle is "broken" do you get a second.

Where does it say that in that VA that a "broken" tackle gives you a second chance? Maybe I am reading too much into this, but I am curious as to why a HB can run through a defensive player and it not be a missed tackle.

wlarson
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Jun 29, 2009 16:57:12

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reading too much into it. still a decent VA.

SS was engaged with the RT. i think higher tackling & vision should allow him to make a tackle attempt while engaged like that. not certain though. could just be well timed broken blocks when it works.

TheInstantClassic
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Jun 29, 2009 17:18:14

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Either way...There are better Va's before sure tackler.....Heavyweight being one of them.

Darren McFadden
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Jun 30, 2009 06:59:53

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I don't like sure tackler. I will never use it for any player. There are always better alternatives.

Underdawg08
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Jun 30, 2009 10:53:12

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When would you invest in sure tackler?
There are about 6 V.A's worth more than that.

(Chris Tucker) And you know this man.

Madd_Maxx
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Jun 30, 2009 11:26:43

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Darren, have you tried 15 VA's in Sure tackler? or is it your opinion that you do not like it?

direfire
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Jun 30, 2009 15:11:54

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Originally posted by Darren McFadden
Originally posted by B-Raz

how come sure tackler isnt good?

you have to think of it statistically.

when you make a tackle, there are certain factors that go into creating two rolls: a break tackle roll for the runner, and a make tackle roll for the defense. there are a lot of things that go into these, but primarily are strength, carrying, agility , and SAs for break, and strength, agility, tackling, and SAs for make.

This is a fairly big assumption, but probably not a bad one: most of these rolls follow a normal distribution. for example, a decent running back will roll between say 40 and 60 (50, +/-10) over 50% of the time...let's say 60% of the time. he will roll between 30 and 40, and 70 and 60, 30% of the time. 10% of the time the roll will fall outside of two standard deviations, 20, 90, whatever.

say you have a RB who averages a 60, and a tackler who averages a 50. most of the time, the RB will break the tackle; the chances don't improve for the RB no matter how many times he rolls.

if the tackler averages 40 and the RB averages 60, then even on a better than average roll for the defense and a poor roll for the ball carrier, the odds are high that the tackle will be broken. the odds are still high even when rolling multiple times.

what would be better imo is to do something that gives a bonus to that average, which is in affect every time the tackle is attempted, rather than sure tackler, which *takes 15 VA just to give a near 50% chance at re-rolling*. so you spend 15 VA (a lot!) and you don't really improve the chances of making the tackle. you just give yourself a better chance to get closer to the average, assuming you had a bad roll.

if sure tackler gave a +10% chance to reroll so that 10VA guaranteed a reroll on every miss, then i'd consider it. but not now. it's almost worthless with say 5 in it, and only when it's close to maxed out can it really make any sort of improvement. and even then it's no guarantee of anything, it affects "outliers", things that happen less often than the average, rather than increasing the average, that is to say, rather than making the tackler better at tackling all the time.

wrt the outliers statement, I will say that if you are a decent tackler, but play on power tackling, and go against a lot of SA heavy RB, because you both have binary type modifiers to the roll numbers (either you get a big bonus or penalty, or nothing), the sure tackler becomes a lot better. because it decreases the standard deviation, that is to say, most of the "impacts" become closer to the average, because the modifiers don't happen very often, less than half the time. but even still in that case, i think the sure tackler bonus, in terms of the % likelihood of getting a reroll, is STILL too low. it just sucks. 45% chance to get another chance? i mean that is just stupid imo. 15 is a TON of VAs. if you put it in DnG, then you get a 30% bonus to EVERY tackle roll against a RB with higher strength, which is probably 95% of the time.

wlarson
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Jun 30, 2009 16:51:03

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My biggest problem with Sure Tackler is it now maxes out at 60%. I am pretty sure it used to be 75%. Either way I like having my guys use normal tackling instead of wrap up, and Sure Tackler makes that an easier switch to make.

edit: I've been moving away from Sure Tackler on my DL and am using DvG with any players having 60+ tackling. But if you are missing a lot of tackles and don't have 60+ base.... there's only so many ways to fix a build.

Edited by wlarson on Jun 30, 2009 16:53:55

notgoing2argue
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Jul 1, 2009 09:37:00

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I'm really starting to not like ST. Unless Bort adds some kind of avoid fake bonus to it I'll be removing it off my LB next season. I found a +3% break block +5% make tackle chance piece that I like much better. I'd rather use a two bonus piece of AEQ with +% make tackle AEQ and not worry about having to get that second roll. I know AEQ and VAs are apples and oranges, but finding a nice piece can free up VP to improve your tackling with other VAs. I think using Football Genius or Textbook tackler would be a better way to spend any amount of VP to improve your tackling. At least that bonus works all the time, and FbG can help you in pass rushing / reaction time.

For Sure Tackler, the drop from 5% to 4% for each point of it makes it pretty awful since you'll still miss that tackle 40% of the time.

Edited by notgoing2argue on Jul 1, 2009 09:41:49

wlarson
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Jul 1, 2009 18:27:10

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Originally posted by notgoing2argue
I found a +3% break block +5% make tackle chance piece that I like much better.

Real nice AEQ find.

notgoing2argue
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Jul 1, 2009 18:45:19

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Originally posted by wlarson
Originally posted by notgoing2argue

I found a +3% break block +5% make tackle chance piece that I like much better.

Real nice AEQ find.

I've got another +5% break block +5% make tackle AND a +5% break block Big Hit piece on my SS. Sure tackler is going away on him next season in exchange for Power Tackler. Then maybe my Big Hit will actually do something.

Warrior General Games