Warrior General Games

How much agility is needed/desired for this to be effective?

I guess my first question should be, does it work?

Safely, I would say 70. Description says not very effective with low agility and Bort is on record as saying you need 70 agility for Super Elusive which requires "very high agility" in its description.

70 agility=Very High Agility, therefore 70 agility is not low agility and should be more than enough to activate Juke.

Does it? Eh. I don't know what a juke is. I have seen lots of unexplainable moves that I did not see when I didn't have juke. Are they jukes? I'm not sure, but I'll pretend they are and continue to plug away at it.

Lol, that's the reason I was leary about pumping it on my WRs. I prefer SAs that gave a more noticeable effect like First step, Quick cut, and route running.

I think Juke isnt quite as good as Spin for instance. Spin shows up in the PBP whereas you have to watch your player in slowmotion to notice a juke.

O lot of what A. Pettersen does is juking...its a fake to throw of defenders.

Rumours are that First Step is getting a little boost in next seasons scrim...

Originally posted by Dujoman
I think Juke isnt quite as good as Spin for instance. Spin shows up in the PBP whereas you have to watch your player in slowmotion to notice a juke.

Does it really show up as a spin? I have 5 in spin and have never seen it shown in the PBP. So I guess it has never fired in all these seasons.

Another question: I have a Adv. Eq that gives me a 13% fake chance. Does that include all fakes like Juke, Spin, head fake, and quick cut? So I get a 13% increase for each of those to fire? I also have Quick feet VA that currently adds 20% to Juke, Spin, head fake. So am I getting a total of 33% chance for each of these to fire?

I do have over 70 agility BTW.

Originally posted by Dujoman
I think Juke isnt quite as good as Spin for instance. Spin shows up in the PBP whereas you have to watch your player in slowmotion to notice a juke.

O lot of what A. Pettersen does is juking...its a fake to throw of defenders.

Rumours are that First Step is getting a little boost in next seasons scrim...

Spin(and as this is the WR forum, I'm using it only to refer to WRs spins, HBs spinning is irrelevant) is crap, plain and simple because no one knows how to build it out, or at least won't share it with me. I have seen 1 person who might be on to the prereqs for spin, but they won't share details and the build looks to be extreme enough where you would negate the other 4 SAs in the tree. Carrying and possibly vision seem to be the X factors for spin, but how much and which ones are the question. How much does strength factor in? We don't really know.

Someone with high spin, 68 agility and 68 carrying needs to show me their profile.

That being said, if you have enough of the attributes to make spin worthwhile, you'll have enough to make HF and Juke really pop as they should be governed by similar attributes. HF and Juke are much more worthwhile than Spin as they trigger with and without the ball. Spin only works after the catch so it does not help one get open at all. Bort has stated the HF and Juke are supposed to help speedsters get open in short yardage situations where the corner would otherwise be stuck on them.

Originally posted by Mob-6
Originally posted by Dujoman

I think Juke isnt quite as good as Spin for instance. Spin shows up in the PBP whereas you have to watch your player in slowmotion to notice a juke.

O lot of what A. Pettersen does is juking...its a fake to throw of defenders.

Rumours are that First Step is getting a little boost in next seasons scrim...

Spin(and as this is the WR forum, I'm using it only to refer to WRs spins, HBs spinning is irrelevant) is crap, plain and simple because no one knows how to build it out, or at least won't share it with me. I have seen 1 person who might be on to the prereqs for spin, but they won't share details and the build looks to be extreme enough where you would negate the other 4 SAs in the tree. Carrying and possibly vision seem to be the X factors for spin, but how much and which ones are the question. How much does strength factor in? We don't really know.

Someone with high spin, 68 agility and 68 carrying needs to show me their profile.

That being said, if you have enough of the attributes to make spin worthwhile, you'll have enough to make HF and Juke really pop as they should be governed by similar attributes. HF and Juke are much more worthwhile than Spin as they trigger with and without the ball. Spin only works after the catch so it does not help one get open at all. Bort has stated the HF and Juke are supposed to help speedsters get open in short yardage situations where the corner would otherwise be stuck on them.


I plan on getting HF pretty high later in my WRs career. What is he going to need to ensure that it triggers enough?

Originally posted by Mob-6
Originally posted by Dujoman

I think Juke isnt quite as good as Spin for instance. Spin shows up in the PBP whereas you have to watch your player in slowmotion to notice a juke.

O lot of what A. Pettersen does is juking...its a fake to throw of defenders.

Rumours are that First Step is getting a little boost in next seasons scrim...

Spin(and as this is the WR forum, I'm using it only to refer to WRs spins, HBs spinning is irrelevant) is crap, plain and simple because no one knows how to build it out, or at least won't share it with me. I have seen 1 person who might be on to the prereqs for spin, but they won't share details and the build looks to be extreme enough where you would negate the other 4 SAs in the tree. Carrying and possibly vision seem to be the X factors for spin, but how much and which ones are the question. How much does strength factor in? We don't really know.

Someone with high spin, 68 agility and 68 carrying needs to show me their profile.

That being said, if you have enough of the attributes to make spin worthwhile, you'll have enough to make HF and Juke really pop as they should be governed by similar attributes. HF and Juke are much more worthwhile than Spin as they trigger with and without the ball. Spin only works after the catch so it does not help one get open at all. Bort has stated the HF and Juke are supposed to help speedsters get open in short yardage situations where the corner would otherwise be stuck on them.


I used to have a +4 Spin AEQ piece on my 2nd WR. It did trigger occasionally for broken tackles, and there were some plays where it looked like the WR just ran a circle around the DB and ran it in, but it wasn't very often and I ended up changing it for a Quick cut piece.

^ What was your agility, carrying, and vision at and which season was this?

Uhh, season 8 I think, and I don't remember exactly, around 100 speed, 60ish agility, 50 vision, 50 carrying.

i would assume carrying triggers juke, hf, and spin for WRs more than any other attribute, since that's how it works with HBs. Most WRs probably don't have 60-68 carrying, however. obviously speed/agi are important, but if your carrying is at 60+ with a +5% fake chance (base) then you'd likely see a ton of these fire.

Originally posted by whatje
i would assume carrying triggers juke, hf, and spin for WRs more than any other attribute, since that's how it works with HBs. Most WRs probably don't have 60-68 carrying, however. obviously speed/agi are important, but if your carrying is at 60+ with a +5% fake chance (base) then you'd likely see a ton of these fire.

First of all, only points in the SA affects how often it will fire. Your skills and AEQ bonuses determine how effective it is when it fires. The AEQ dosn't say fake chance, it says fake. The Quick Feet VA doesn't say it gives a bonus too how often they go off, it gives a bonus to how often they suceed. Also, I was under the impression that Agility was the prime attribute for juke and spin. I don't know where I got that from, oh wait, it says it right on the SA.

Originally posted by voltageaav

1)First of all, only points in the SA affects how often it will fire. Your skills and AEQ bonuses determine how effective it is when it fires. The AEQ dosn't say fake chance, it says fake. 2)The Quick Feet VA doesn't say it gives a bonus too how often they go off, it gives a bonus to how often they suceed. 3)Also, I was under the impression that Agility was the prime attribute for juke and spin. I don't know where I got that from, oh wait, it says it right on the SA.



1) Not true. Guys with 10 spin and high agility have 0% spin percentage because they are missing the attributes to do it while guys who have the mystery attributes to actually spin and have only 1 invested in spin manage to do so 5% of their plays. The SA is just a percent modifier chance, if you don't have enough attributes to make it work, 0%, then a 50% increase(via say 10 SPIN) of 0% still leaves you at 0%.

2) Yes it give a bonus to how often it succeeds, more chances = more chances for success, no? As the game doesn't record attempted spins, jukes, or HF isn't it logical to say it increases those as an increase in successful move = an increase in moves? Hello...

3) I was under the impression people would actually know what they are talking about before making sarcastic statements. Yes the description says agility is the main factor, but guess what, it is blatantly wrong. I can show you a ton of high agility guys with high spin who have zero spins. Why, because there is another attribute factor at work here, Bort has alluded to it being carrying and vision if not actually out right stating that.

Originally posted by Mob-6
Originally posted by voltageaav


1)First of all, only points in the SA affects how often it will fire. Your skills and AEQ bonuses determine how effective it is when it fires. The AEQ dosn't say fake chance, it says fake. 2)The Quick Feet VA doesn't say it gives a bonus too how often they go off, it gives a bonus to how often they suceed. 3)Also, I was under the impression that Agility was the prime attribute for juke and spin. I don't know where I got that from, oh wait, it says it right on the SA.

You are full of fail.

1) Not true. Guys with 10 spin and high agility have 0% spin percentage because they are missing the attributes to do it while guys who have the mystery attributes to actually spin and have only 1 invested in spin manage to do so 5% of their plays. The SA is just a percent modifier chance, if you don't have enough attributes to make it work, 0%, then a 50% increase(via say 10 SPIN) of 0% still leaves you at 0%.

2) Yes it give a bonus to how often it succeeds, more chances = more chances for success, no? As the game doesn't record attempted spins, jukes, or HF isn't it logical to say it increases those as an increase in successful move = an increase in moves? Hello...

3) I was under the impression people would actually know what they are talking about before making sarcastic statements. Yes the description says agility is the main factor, but guess what, it is blatantly wrong. I can show you a ton of high agility guys with high spin who have zero spins. Why, because there is another attribute factor at work here, Bort has alluded to it being carrying and vision if not actually out right stating that.

Is vision and carrying what is needed for HF as well?