So is it still worth putting 15 points into this for speedsters?
drakeborn
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Let's assume your 31 WR has a 72 natural speed and an equipped speed of 94. 15 in to track star would raise your speed to 97. Not worth it, in my opinion.
geal
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Originally posted by drakeborn
Let's assume your 31 WR has a 72 natural speed and an equipped speed of 94. 15 in to track star would raise your speed to 97. Not worth it, in my opinion.
Well, my natural speed is 79, and equipped is 101. My thinking was that since no one uses track star any longer, I'll have even more speed advantage before. Back then, even cb's used track star, so the difference between cb speed and wr speed isn't much, but now that no one is using it, I figured it would help widen the gap even more.
Let's assume your 31 WR has a 72 natural speed and an equipped speed of 94. 15 in to track star would raise your speed to 97. Not worth it, in my opinion.
Well, my natural speed is 79, and equipped is 101. My thinking was that since no one uses track star any longer, I'll have even more speed advantage before. Back then, even cb's used track star, so the difference between cb speed and wr speed isn't much, but now that no one is using it, I figured it would help widen the gap even more.
hiimjake
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Originally posted by geal
Originally posted by drakeborn
Let's assume your 31 WR has a 72 natural speed and an equipped speed of 94. 15 in to track star would raise your speed to 97. Not worth it, in my opinion.
Well, my natural speed is 79, and equipped is 101. My thinking was that since no one uses track star any longer, I'll have even more speed advantage before. Back then, even cb's used track star, so the difference between cb speed and wr speed isn't much, but now that no one is using it, I figured it would help widen the gap even more.
The problem with that is whether your speed is 101, 105, or 110... CBs who are much slower will have no problem running with you for some reason.
Originally posted by drakeborn
Let's assume your 31 WR has a 72 natural speed and an equipped speed of 94. 15 in to track star would raise your speed to 97. Not worth it, in my opinion.
Well, my natural speed is 79, and equipped is 101. My thinking was that since no one uses track star any longer, I'll have even more speed advantage before. Back then, even cb's used track star, so the difference between cb speed and wr speed isn't much, but now that no one is using it, I figured it would help widen the gap even more.
The problem with that is whether your speed is 101, 105, or 110... CBs who are much slower will have no problem running with you for some reason.
drakeborn
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Originally posted by geal
Originally posted by drakeborn
Let's assume your 31 WR has a 72 natural speed and an equipped speed of 94. 15 in to track star would raise your speed to 97. Not worth it, in my opinion.
Well, my natural speed is 79, and equipped is 101. My thinking was that since no one uses track star any longer, I'll have even more speed advantage before. Back then, even cb's used track star, so the difference between cb speed and wr speed isn't much, but now that no one is using it, I figured it would help widen the gap even more.
You can try it, but it's pretty evident to me from watching games that CBs don't need nearly the speed of a WR to keep up. At higher levels, I rarely see out-and-out burns.
Originally posted by drakeborn
Let's assume your 31 WR has a 72 natural speed and an equipped speed of 94. 15 in to track star would raise your speed to 97. Not worth it, in my opinion.
Well, my natural speed is 79, and equipped is 101. My thinking was that since no one uses track star any longer, I'll have even more speed advantage before. Back then, even cb's used track star, so the difference between cb speed and wr speed isn't much, but now that no one is using it, I figured it would help widen the gap even more.
You can try it, but it's pretty evident to me from watching games that CBs don't need nearly the speed of a WR to keep up. At higher levels, I rarely see out-and-out burns.
doubletree
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Originally posted by drakeborn
Originally posted by geal
Originally posted by drakeborn
Let's assume your 31 WR has a 72 natural speed and an equipped speed of 94. 15 in to track star would raise your speed to 97. Not worth it, in my opinion.
Well, my natural speed is 79, and equipped is 101. My thinking was that since no one uses track star any longer, I'll have even more speed advantage before. Back then, even cb's used track star, so the difference between cb speed and wr speed isn't much, but now that no one is using it, I figured it would help widen the gap even more.
You can try it, but it's pretty evident to me from watching games that CBs don't need nearly the speed of a WR to keep up. At higher levels, I rarely see out-and-out burns.
We all need to take the issue to the main board with our pitch forks and get it fixed
Originally posted by geal
Originally posted by drakeborn
Let's assume your 31 WR has a 72 natural speed and an equipped speed of 94. 15 in to track star would raise your speed to 97. Not worth it, in my opinion.
Well, my natural speed is 79, and equipped is 101. My thinking was that since no one uses track star any longer, I'll have even more speed advantage before. Back then, even cb's used track star, so the difference between cb speed and wr speed isn't much, but now that no one is using it, I figured it would help widen the gap even more.
You can try it, but it's pretty evident to me from watching games that CBs don't need nearly the speed of a WR to keep up. At higher levels, I rarely see out-and-out burns.
We all need to take the issue to the main board with our pitch forks and get it fixed
Mob-6
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I'm still not seeing a problem. People bitched about WR last year. My teams put up record passing numbers. People are bitching about WRs this year, both of my GM'd teams put up great numbers in the pre-season and had phenomenal outings in their 1st games. WRs are fine, just get a passing attack consultant to help you utilize your guys better.
MarnDeis
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Originally posted by hiimjake
Originally posted by geal
Originally posted by drakeborn
Let's assume your 31 WR has a 72 natural speed and an equipped speed of 94. 15 in to track star would raise your speed to 97. Not worth it, in my opinion.
Well, my natural speed is 79, and equipped is 101. My thinking was that since no one uses track star any longer, I'll have even more speed advantage before. Back then, even cb's used track star, so the difference between cb speed and wr speed isn't much, but now that no one is using it, I figured it would help widen the gap even more.
The problem with that is whether your speed is 101, 105, or 110... CBs who are much slower will have no problem running with you for some reason.
especially with ball hawk even if you do burn them, they will catch you once the ball is thrown.
Originally posted by geal
Originally posted by drakeborn
Let's assume your 31 WR has a 72 natural speed and an equipped speed of 94. 15 in to track star would raise your speed to 97. Not worth it, in my opinion.
Well, my natural speed is 79, and equipped is 101. My thinking was that since no one uses track star any longer, I'll have even more speed advantage before. Back then, even cb's used track star, so the difference between cb speed and wr speed isn't much, but now that no one is using it, I figured it would help widen the gap even more.
The problem with that is whether your speed is 101, 105, or 110... CBs who are much slower will have no problem running with you for some reason.
especially with ball hawk even if you do burn them, they will catch you once the ball is thrown.
doubletree
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Originally posted by Mob-6
I'm still not seeing a problem. People bitched about WR last year. My teams put up record passing numbers. People are bitching about WRs this year, both of my GM'd teams put up great numbers in the pre-season and had phenomenal outings in their 1st games. WRs are fine, just get a passing attack consultant to help you utilize your guys better.
Nice, the classic my player/team is doing good so there is no problem and everyone else is wrong post. That doesn't explain why a CB with 20-25 less speed can run right along a WR. Also, my WR led his league in yards and touchdowns last season.
I'm still not seeing a problem. People bitched about WR last year. My teams put up record passing numbers. People are bitching about WRs this year, both of my GM'd teams put up great numbers in the pre-season and had phenomenal outings in their 1st games. WRs are fine, just get a passing attack consultant to help you utilize your guys better.
Nice, the classic my player/team is doing good so there is no problem and everyone else is wrong post. That doesn't explain why a CB with 20-25 less speed can run right along a WR. Also, my WR led his league in yards and touchdowns last season.
Mob-6
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Originally posted by doubletree
Originally posted by Mob-6
I'm still not seeing a problem. People bitched about WR last year. My teams put up record passing numbers. People are bitching about WRs this year, both of my GM'd teams put up great numbers in the pre-season and had phenomenal outings in their 1st games. WRs are fine, just get a passing attack consultant to help you utilize your guys better.
Nice, the classic my player/team is doing good so there is no problem and everyone else is wrong post. That doesn't explain why a CB with 20-25 less speed can run right along a WR. Also, my WR led his league in yards and touchdowns last season.
So what are you crying about, your WR led his league in yards and TDS? Get a clue. If you aren't happy with that and you want to unrealistically dominate something, go and play pretend in your back yard and knock over some ant hills or something. Lol, level 25 WR?
I would argue that yours is the classic response from someone whose WR isn't performing like they want. How are you impacted by the CB running alongside you with 20-25 less speed if it hasn't effected your ability to lead the league in TDs and yards? Go look at powerbacks and strength. There gets to be a point where you can unrealistically dominate if you don't put coding safe guards in. The system is fine. Can you point to something other than a visual pet peave in the replays for this problem? I keep a pretty good pulse on the WR community and can tell you the passing game if anything, is broken. There is no reason for anyone to be average 80% completion rates right now, THAT is broken. Feel free to post more when you find that clue.
Originally posted by Mob-6
I'm still not seeing a problem. People bitched about WR last year. My teams put up record passing numbers. People are bitching about WRs this year, both of my GM'd teams put up great numbers in the pre-season and had phenomenal outings in their 1st games. WRs are fine, just get a passing attack consultant to help you utilize your guys better.
Nice, the classic my player/team is doing good so there is no problem and everyone else is wrong post. That doesn't explain why a CB with 20-25 less speed can run right along a WR. Also, my WR led his league in yards and touchdowns last season.
So what are you crying about, your WR led his league in yards and TDS? Get a clue. If you aren't happy with that and you want to unrealistically dominate something, go and play pretend in your back yard and knock over some ant hills or something. Lol, level 25 WR?
I would argue that yours is the classic response from someone whose WR isn't performing like they want. How are you impacted by the CB running alongside you with 20-25 less speed if it hasn't effected your ability to lead the league in TDs and yards? Go look at powerbacks and strength. There gets to be a point where you can unrealistically dominate if you don't put coding safe guards in. The system is fine. Can you point to something other than a visual pet peave in the replays for this problem? I keep a pretty good pulse on the WR community and can tell you the passing game if anything, is broken. There is no reason for anyone to be average 80% completion rates right now, THAT is broken. Feel free to post more when you find that clue.
doubletree
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Originally posted by Mob-6
Originally posted by doubletree
Originally posted by Mob-6
I'm still not seeing a problem. People bitched about WR last year. My teams put up record passing numbers. People are bitching about WRs this year, both of my GM'd teams put up great numbers in the pre-season and had phenomenal outings in their 1st games. WRs are fine, just get a passing attack consultant to help you utilize your guys better.
Nice, the classic my player/team is doing good so there is no problem and everyone else is wrong post. That doesn't explain why a CB with 20-25 less speed can run right along a WR. Also, my WR led his league in yards and touchdowns last season.
So what are you crying about, your WR led his league in yards and TDS? Get a clue. If you aren't happy with that and you want to unrealistically dominate something, go and play pretend in your back yard and knock over some ant hills or something. Lol, level 25 WR?
I would argue that yours is the classic response from someone whose WR isn't performing like they want. How are you impacted by the CB running alongside you with 20-25 less speed if it hasn't effected your ability to lead the league in TDs and yards? Go look at powerbacks and strength. There gets to be a point where you can unrealistically dominate if you don't put coding safe guards in. The system is fine. Can you point to something other than a visual pet peave in the replays for this problem? I keep a pretty good pulse on the WR community and can tell you the passing game if anything, is broken. There is no reason for anyone to be average 80% completion rates right now, THAT is broken. Feel free to post more when you find that clue.
So if my WR has a good season I shouldn't complain regardless? Obviously I wasn't unhappy about his numbers but I don't see a problem with what I'm asking for. Do you think a CB with 75 speed should be able to consistently run with a WR with 100 speed?
And what does my WR's level have to do with it? I'm not just talking about him and ya he is my first WR so I am not going to claim that I know how to build a WR better than you do. Again, I don't think I'm asking for much in thinking that a faster WR by a large margin should be faster on the field. I'd like to hear your response to the above question.
Also a large portion of his yards aren't really that credible because they were off the WR screen and besides that, at that low of a level passing/receiving stats can get skewed.
Also, I watched the game of your higher lvl WR and wouldn't mind some passing attack help, either here or via PM if you don't mind.
Originally posted by doubletree
Originally posted by Mob-6
I'm still not seeing a problem. People bitched about WR last year. My teams put up record passing numbers. People are bitching about WRs this year, both of my GM'd teams put up great numbers in the pre-season and had phenomenal outings in their 1st games. WRs are fine, just get a passing attack consultant to help you utilize your guys better.
Nice, the classic my player/team is doing good so there is no problem and everyone else is wrong post. That doesn't explain why a CB with 20-25 less speed can run right along a WR. Also, my WR led his league in yards and touchdowns last season.
So what are you crying about, your WR led his league in yards and TDS? Get a clue. If you aren't happy with that and you want to unrealistically dominate something, go and play pretend in your back yard and knock over some ant hills or something. Lol, level 25 WR?
I would argue that yours is the classic response from someone whose WR isn't performing like they want. How are you impacted by the CB running alongside you with 20-25 less speed if it hasn't effected your ability to lead the league in TDs and yards? Go look at powerbacks and strength. There gets to be a point where you can unrealistically dominate if you don't put coding safe guards in. The system is fine. Can you point to something other than a visual pet peave in the replays for this problem? I keep a pretty good pulse on the WR community and can tell you the passing game if anything, is broken. There is no reason for anyone to be average 80% completion rates right now, THAT is broken. Feel free to post more when you find that clue.
So if my WR has a good season I shouldn't complain regardless? Obviously I wasn't unhappy about his numbers but I don't see a problem with what I'm asking for. Do you think a CB with 75 speed should be able to consistently run with a WR with 100 speed?
And what does my WR's level have to do with it? I'm not just talking about him and ya he is my first WR so I am not going to claim that I know how to build a WR better than you do. Again, I don't think I'm asking for much in thinking that a faster WR by a large margin should be faster on the field. I'd like to hear your response to the above question.
Also a large portion of his yards aren't really that credible because they were off the WR screen and besides that, at that low of a level passing/receiving stats can get skewed.
Also, I watched the game of your higher lvl WR and wouldn't mind some passing attack help, either here or via PM if you don't mind.
Last edited Apr 26, 2009 14:17:13
hiimjake
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Originally posted by Mob-6
Originally posted by doubletree
Originally posted by Mob-6
I'm still not seeing a problem. People bitched about WR last year. My teams put up record passing numbers. People are bitching about WRs this year, both of my GM'd teams put up great numbers in the pre-season and had phenomenal outings in their 1st games. WRs are fine, just get a passing attack consultant to help you utilize your guys better.
Nice, the classic my player/team is doing good so there is no problem and everyone else is wrong post. That doesn't explain why a CB with 20-25 less speed can run right along a WR. Also, my WR led his league in yards and touchdowns last season.
So what are you crying about, your WR led his league in yards and TDS? Get a clue. If you aren't happy with that and you want to unrealistically dominate something, go and play pretend in your back yard and knock over some ant hills or something. Lol, level 25 WR?
I would argue that yours is the classic response from someone whose WR isn't performing like they want. How are you impacted by the CB running alongside you with 20-25 less speed if it hasn't effected your ability to lead the league in TDs and yards? Go look at powerbacks and strength. There gets to be a point where you can unrealistically dominate if you don't put coding safe guards in. The system is fine. Can you point to something other than a visual pet peave in the replays for this problem? I keep a pretty good pulse on the WR community and can tell you the passing game if anything, is broken. There is no reason for anyone to be average 80% completion rates right now, THAT is broken. Feel free to post more when you find that clue.
There's still no logical reason a CB should be able to run stride for stride with a WR that has 20 more speed than him. That makes no sense. A WR with 110+ speed should blow by a CB with 90ish speed on streak routes. But that much speed will come at the expense of agility and other things, making those WRs easy to defend on underneath routes. I've never bother to take my WRs speed beyond the mid 90s because with the way the sim is there's no real reason to unless you're going for a Colon Grifter type build.
Originally posted by doubletree
Originally posted by Mob-6
I'm still not seeing a problem. People bitched about WR last year. My teams put up record passing numbers. People are bitching about WRs this year, both of my GM'd teams put up great numbers in the pre-season and had phenomenal outings in their 1st games. WRs are fine, just get a passing attack consultant to help you utilize your guys better.
Nice, the classic my player/team is doing good so there is no problem and everyone else is wrong post. That doesn't explain why a CB with 20-25 less speed can run right along a WR. Also, my WR led his league in yards and touchdowns last season.
So what are you crying about, your WR led his league in yards and TDS? Get a clue. If you aren't happy with that and you want to unrealistically dominate something, go and play pretend in your back yard and knock over some ant hills or something. Lol, level 25 WR?
I would argue that yours is the classic response from someone whose WR isn't performing like they want. How are you impacted by the CB running alongside you with 20-25 less speed if it hasn't effected your ability to lead the league in TDs and yards? Go look at powerbacks and strength. There gets to be a point where you can unrealistically dominate if you don't put coding safe guards in. The system is fine. Can you point to something other than a visual pet peave in the replays for this problem? I keep a pretty good pulse on the WR community and can tell you the passing game if anything, is broken. There is no reason for anyone to be average 80% completion rates right now, THAT is broken. Feel free to post more when you find that clue.
There's still no logical reason a CB should be able to run stride for stride with a WR that has 20 more speed than him. That makes no sense. A WR with 110+ speed should blow by a CB with 90ish speed on streak routes. But that much speed will come at the expense of agility and other things, making those WRs easy to defend on underneath routes. I've never bother to take my WRs speed beyond the mid 90s because with the way the sim is there's no real reason to unless you're going for a Colon Grifter type build.
Mob-6
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Originally posted by doubletree
So if my WR has a good season I shouldn't complain regardless? Obviously I wasn't unhappy about his numbers but I don't see a problem with what I'm asking for. Do you think a CB with 75 speed should be able to consistently run with a WR with 100 speed?
There needs to be checks and balances so you don't have untackleable high strength players and untouchable speedsters. Do you really want a 1 attribute game? If you do, then everyone one will jack speed to 200 and ignore other attributes. Where does that get you? If you want even players who have the game just decided by tactics, Peewee teams are looking for good players.
If speed effects were to be increased to the point where every time someone caught a ball it was a guaranteed TD like in season 6 or earlier it will destroy the game. There has to be a building trade off. If they do this, than catching would have to be nerfed down so that you wouldn't be able to catch the ball with less than 80 catching, 70 vision and 70 carrying. This would force you to take less and reasonable speed because no one is going to sign you with 110 speed and a catching rate of 5%. Is that really where you want the game to go? Currently that speed difference between the CB and WR seems to scale. A CB keeps up with a percentage of the WRs speed, but if you are a faster WR you still gain more separation that a guy with10 less speed. What does that mean? The guy with 10 faster speed still has a speed advantage taken account into his roll despite the defender being on top of him. The slower WR may have the defender right on top of him, but his extra attribute points help him reel in the catch via better catching rolls. Not a hard concept to grasp and it is currently very well balanced. Guys who sacrifice on other attributes at the expense of speed have worse catching ratios, down right bad. Guys who build balanced guys succeed, slow possession guys succeed, fast speed guys succeed. This is the best SIM in terms of realism and fairness this game has had at WR. Believe me, I would love it if they would roll back the sim to season 5 and my WR would be the best since Flames, but they aren't doing that and I am happy with where my speedster and possession WR are in terms of the game and their builds. Bort has it down right real right now, if anything it favors passing to much. We shouldn't be seeing 80% +passing completion rates again.
Originally posted by doubletree
And what does my WR's level have to do with it? I'm not just talking about him and ya he is my first WR so I am not going to claim that I know how to build a WR better than you do. Again, I don't think I'm asking for much in thinking that a faster WR by a large margin should be faster on the field. I'd like to hear your response to the above question.
Level 25 WRs can rely on significantly less attributes to succeed. I could load up a level 10 guy with nothing, but speed and have him dominate. As you get higher in level, you are forced to balance out your build and start to cap other attributes or else it will adversely impact your catching percentages. You don't really see the effects of that at level 25. Once you get into your mid 30s you'll start to see the stagnation plateau. If you want speed to show up as a significant visual advantage to blow by people, there will have to be a catching trade off as I said. The requirements to catch will go up and people will be forced to take less speed because the catching rate will be ineffective. Of course the other positions who don't have to catch like RB and FB and CB and QB will be able to blow through everyone because there won't be any rushing penalties for speed and thus the WR will die a horrible death as other skill positions are more effective than they are.
But if this is what you want...more power to you.
So if my WR has a good season I shouldn't complain regardless? Obviously I wasn't unhappy about his numbers but I don't see a problem with what I'm asking for. Do you think a CB with 75 speed should be able to consistently run with a WR with 100 speed?
There needs to be checks and balances so you don't have untackleable high strength players and untouchable speedsters. Do you really want a 1 attribute game? If you do, then everyone one will jack speed to 200 and ignore other attributes. Where does that get you? If you want even players who have the game just decided by tactics, Peewee teams are looking for good players.
If speed effects were to be increased to the point where every time someone caught a ball it was a guaranteed TD like in season 6 or earlier it will destroy the game. There has to be a building trade off. If they do this, than catching would have to be nerfed down so that you wouldn't be able to catch the ball with less than 80 catching, 70 vision and 70 carrying. This would force you to take less and reasonable speed because no one is going to sign you with 110 speed and a catching rate of 5%. Is that really where you want the game to go? Currently that speed difference between the CB and WR seems to scale. A CB keeps up with a percentage of the WRs speed, but if you are a faster WR you still gain more separation that a guy with10 less speed. What does that mean? The guy with 10 faster speed still has a speed advantage taken account into his roll despite the defender being on top of him. The slower WR may have the defender right on top of him, but his extra attribute points help him reel in the catch via better catching rolls. Not a hard concept to grasp and it is currently very well balanced. Guys who sacrifice on other attributes at the expense of speed have worse catching ratios, down right bad. Guys who build balanced guys succeed, slow possession guys succeed, fast speed guys succeed. This is the best SIM in terms of realism and fairness this game has had at WR. Believe me, I would love it if they would roll back the sim to season 5 and my WR would be the best since Flames, but they aren't doing that and I am happy with where my speedster and possession WR are in terms of the game and their builds. Bort has it down right real right now, if anything it favors passing to much. We shouldn't be seeing 80% +passing completion rates again.
Originally posted by doubletree
And what does my WR's level have to do with it? I'm not just talking about him and ya he is my first WR so I am not going to claim that I know how to build a WR better than you do. Again, I don't think I'm asking for much in thinking that a faster WR by a large margin should be faster on the field. I'd like to hear your response to the above question.
Level 25 WRs can rely on significantly less attributes to succeed. I could load up a level 10 guy with nothing, but speed and have him dominate. As you get higher in level, you are forced to balance out your build and start to cap other attributes or else it will adversely impact your catching percentages. You don't really see the effects of that at level 25. Once you get into your mid 30s you'll start to see the stagnation plateau. If you want speed to show up as a significant visual advantage to blow by people, there will have to be a catching trade off as I said. The requirements to catch will go up and people will be forced to take less speed because the catching rate will be ineffective. Of course the other positions who don't have to catch like RB and FB and CB and QB will be able to blow through everyone because there won't be any rushing penalties for speed and thus the WR will die a horrible death as other skill positions are more effective than they are.
But if this is what you want...more power to you.
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