Warrior General Games

I'll be boosting him to level 32 before the season starts, giving me 15 SPs to work with.

He has:
64.4 strength
73.4 agility (plus 24 from equipment)
54.71 tackling
33 speed
47.43 vision
49.04 stamina (edit: included since its relevant to Tautology's advice)

He also has 2-7-0-0-0 in the pass rusher tree (3 shed block from gear) and 6-1-1-1-1 in the run stuffer tree (CE and 3 wall from gear)
I won't be putting more into SAs for another two seasons or so. Speed and Tackling will both get to 61, Strength to 68, and maybe even Speed to 68 before I go back to SAs.

Upon reaching level 32, he will get to add 3 points of agility through his equipment immediately, and a 4th point midseason when he gets another 8 bonus tokens. He'll be past 100 agility.

I'm not worried about his performance this season, its the long term that I am considering. My team is not going to make a run in the playoffs this season.

My first option is to take the 15 SPs and put them into agility at 5:1 to get 3 more agility, and then consider myself done with putting SPs into agility (or should I even keep going after that?).

My second option is to take the 15 SPs, and put 1 into vision (capping it), and 14 into tackling, giving myself 7 more points in tackling, and bringing it up to the second cap

I will be training speed & agility on intense throughout the season, and at the end of the season, I'll dump my 10 (or hopefully 15) SPs accrued into Speed, capping it in time for next season. So even though speed is what would help him the most short term, I'm more worried about the long term. So no, don't tell me I should put them into Speed.

So basically my question is, at what point is it not worth it for me to be dumping SPs into agility? Have I gotten his agility high enough yet, or can it never be high enough?

Either strength or agility is a reasonable investment...I would go strength personally.

I might train speed/stamina instead of speed/agility as well, depending on your stamina level.

I've got Stamina capped (I edited my original post in response to your answer), which is why I've been training agility.

My DT is obviously an agility DT, not a balanced DT, or a strength NT. Even so, have I gotten his strength-agility ratio too far out of whack even for a pass rushing DT?

Originally posted by gabrielrockman
I've got Stamina capped (I edited my original post in response to your answer), which is why I've been training agility.

My DT is obviously an agility DT, not a balanced DT, or a strength NT. Even so, have I gotten his strength-agility ratio too far out of whack even for a pass rushing DT?

On the stamina issue, then speed/agility or speed/tackling is is a good bet if you are softcapped in stamina.

On the strength/agility question...that's a tough call. A lot will depend on the direction the sim takes...there is a good argument for uber-agility, but I have found strength to have real value, and strength that is too low does seem detrimental to perfomrance. I think you are currently on an arc that will result in strength that is too low, but opinions may vary on that.

I'd add it to strength and throw the rest into speed after hitting the 68 cap.

Originally posted by OP
My DT is obviously an agility DT, not a balanced DT, or a strength NT. Even so, have I gotten his strength-agility ratio too far out of whack even for a pass rushing DT?

ratios are meaningless.

Originally posted by nottom
I'd add it to strength and throw the rest into speed after hitting the 68 cap.

Originally posted by OP

My DT is obviously an agility DT, not a balanced DT, or a strength NT. Even so, have I gotten his strength-agility ratio too far out of whack even for a pass rushing DT?

ratios are meaningless.



No they aren't. I'm at the point where I could get 5 more strength or 3 more agility. I have to decide whether its more important to get Agility to the 5th cap or Strength to the 3rd cap. If I asked whether I should put points into agility or strength, and only told how much I had in one of the two categories, it would be impossible to get a good answer - how much I had in the other attribute would be relevant. Which one of the two I choose is extremely dependent on how far I've already gotten BOTH of them .... which is represented by their ratio.


P.S. you really really suck at reading. I specifically said "Don't tell me I should put them into speed". Did you fail 1st grade or something?

Originally posted by tautology
Originally posted by gabrielrockman

I've got Stamina capped (I edited my original post in response to your answer), which is why I've been training agility.

My DT is obviously an agility DT, not a balanced DT, or a strength NT. Even so, have I gotten his strength-agility ratio too far out of whack even for a pass rushing DT?

On the stamina issue, then speed/agility or speed/tackling is is a good bet if you are softcapped in stamina.

On the strength/agility question...that's a tough call. A lot will depend on the direction the sim takes...there is a good argument for uber-agility, but I have found strength to have real value, and strength that is too low does seem detrimental to perfomrance. I think you are currently on an arc that will result in strength that is too low, but opinions may vary on that.

I have put 2 SPs into Wall, along with 4 more from equipment to make up for my low strength a little bit on running plays. I'm not sure how effective the Wall SA is, though. I hope my DT becomes one of the examples for the good arguments for uber-agility once he gets his speed up to 61 or 68 in a couple of seasons, along with the automatic agility boosts he'll get just from leveling up.

I have noticed my low strength hurting, although I'm far from alone on my team in being outclassed against some of the offensive linemen we've faced - my team's D-Linemen range from level 29 to level 38, and we've faced some level 48ish offensive linemen who probably would push all of us around regardless of how much strength we have, given the level differences between us.

I personally think even uber-agile DTs benefit from strength.

My agility based 32 DT has 79.2 base agility with all equipment (except AE bonus to stamina) However, his strength is 77.5 and speed is 62.5. His vision and confidence are very low right now, but I have been very happy with results so far and what I've seen. He doesn't have 32 upgrades yet, and has gone against level 40+ OL in preseason and performed admirably.

Originally posted by gabrielrockman
Originally posted by nottom

I'd add it to strength and throw the rest into speed after hitting the 68 cap.

Originally posted by OP


My DT is obviously an agility DT, not a balanced DT, or a strength NT. Even so, have I gotten his strength-agility ratio too far out of whack even for a pass rushing DT?

ratios are meaningless.




P.S. you really really suck at reading. I specifically said "Don't tell me I should put them into speed". Did you fail 1st grade or something?

P.S. You suck out loud. Who gives a flying rat's ass whether you said "don't tell me blah blah blah" Get a clue cock knocker. Nottum gave you an honest assessment of what he thought you should do. If you were so damn sure of what you didn't need to do, then what the hell was the point of this post? I love it when the clowns come marching in asking a question and replying with total dick responses. Put your big girl panties on, take the contructive critique for what it was, and move the hell on. I rarely reply on these forums, but clearly Nottum is one of the guys here that provides pretty good answers on a frequent basis, and there is no need what so ever to call out his education. Asking a question and demanding certain responses certainly exposes your maturity. Put every SP into speed until you hit 50 door knob, intense strength and kick and attempt to kick your own ass.

Originally posted by gabrielrockman


No they aren't. I'm at the point where I could get 5 more strength or 3 more agility. I have to decide whether its more important to get Agility to the 5th cap or Strength to the 3rd cap. If I asked whether I should put points into agility or strength, and only told how much I had in one of the two categories, it would be impossible to get a good answer - how much I had in the other attribute would be relevant. Which one of the two I choose is extremely dependent on how far I've already gotten BOTH of them .... which is represented by their ratio.



no it has nothing to do with a ratio. there is no "magic ratio" where you want strength to be 84% of your agility for an "agile" DT for max effectivness.

If I have a guy with 80 agility and 70 speed there is an 8:7 ratio but that's no more important than the fact that he has a 10:1 agilityunting ratio. He would still be better if he was 90/70 or 80/80 or 85/75 even though none of those keep the same ratio as 80:70

People use the word ratio when what they really mean is that your second (or 3rd or 4th) attribute needs to be high as well in order to be effective

Originally posted by gabrielrockman

P.S. you really really suck at reading. I specifically said "Don't tell me I should put them into speed". Did you fail 1st grade or something?

OK i'll translate into troll for you:
"throw the rest into speed" = "hold onto the remaining SPs until you decide to cap speed which should be in about another 2-3 levels"

I say you train agility/speed (since it appears you are intent on training agility) and save all your points until you're ready to put them into speed.

An agile DT that sheds blocks and gets into the backfield isn't much help without the speed to get to the QB/ball carrier. If you want to shed blocks to better be able to handle runners, as opposed to sacking the QB, then i would suggest boosting strength/agility and not worrying too much about speed

Just a thought. If you are building a pass rusher why put points into run stuffer, especially up to d line gen?

Originally posted by tmac726643
Just a thought. If you are building a pass rusher why put points into run stuffer, especially up to d line gen?
This. And Strength is VERY important now.

I'd go strength to 68