Warrior General Games

Back to looking ahead rather than at this season, as you might know Bort has been working on a formula to determine conference MVPs. These are the numbers that he currently is coming up with for WEPL, would be nice if we could get some serious feedback on who you feel is missing or who is on the list that shouldn't be, and what you think might need to be done to improve the list to rectify those possible mistakes.

PS: I know that the list "needs more Pimps", so it would be nice if you could keep those kind of responses to a minimum

Alpha Conference
TOTAL OFFENSE
HB TJ Crimson (Paris Dream Bolts) 27456 2.5
HB Ankle Breaka (Turin THUNDER) 62580 3.5
QB Matt Man (Graz Grizzlies) 110318 5
HB Joseph Ngo (Woodridge Lumberjacks) 50200 7
QB Johnny Oscar (West Wales Warriors) 131267 7
QB Laser Rocketarm (Aberdeen Wrecking Crew) 44277 7.5
QB Steve Tarkenton (Paris Philharmonic) 256775 9
HB Dennis Riddle (West Wales Warriors) 141136 12
QB Tone Romo (Belfast Commandos) 228829 12
HB Jaquan-Juan Tomba (Bonn Dynamo) 66755 13

TOTAL DEFENSE
DE Jimmy Johnston (Aberdeen Wrecking Crew) 185734 1
LB Bell Ringer Rogers (London Monarchs) 32335 3
SS Oliver Tullock (E-City Mercenaries) 43675 4.5
LB Kamerion Winbley (Paris Dream Bolts) 240553 5
DT Leon (Woodridge Lumberjacks) 79392 7
DE QB Nightmare (Paris Dream Bolts) 31400 7.5
LB marco nans (Paris Dream Bolts) 61751 8
LB Fo' Dee Ounce (Black Watch) 31792 9
LB D'Qwell Jackson. (Paris Dream Bolts) 176868 12.5
CB Ronnie Sanders (Graz Grizzlies) 45283 14

TOTAL S TEAMS
CB DeSean Sharks (Paris Dream Bolts) 326801 1
CB Dedrick Dodge (London Monarchs) 140685 2
CB Von Kaiser (Team Perkis) 473170 3.5
CB Sammy Glen (Aberdeen Wrecking Crew) 148714 5
CB Jerome Quinn (Graz Grizzlies) 165499 5.5
CB Bubbles (Woodridge Lumberjacks) 66425 6.5
CB Deion CB Sanders (Paris Philharmonic) 276622 7
CB Gonzo "Beep Beep" Gonzales (Black Watch) 127368 9
CB Pierce Kellogg (E-City Mercenaries) 75207 9.5
CB Neo Deo (Belfast Commandos) 510493 10

Zeta Conference
TOTAL OFFENSE
HB Areo Hotah (A Team of Ice and Fire) 386393 1
HB Mal Brown (Stockholm Meatballs) 87194 2
HB Joachim Morrigan (Berlin Ballers) 426543 4
HB Money Dorsett (Edinburgh Black Knights) 169471 4.5
QB Dmitri Makarov (Berlin Ballers) 376453 6
HB Arch Griffin (Antwerp Annihilators) 366827 6
HB Johnnie Nitro (Cardiff Bluebirds) 277178 7
HB MB III (Rivals Mainboard Pimps) 33874 9.5
QB Ace Gunner (London Hitmen) 73649 9.5
QB Grey Goose (London Rippers) 30476 9.5

TOTAL DEFENSE
LB Blitz Smith (London Rippers) 137926 1
DE Jason Mayweather (Edinburgh Black Knights) 87612 3.5
LB Bobby Brooks (Edinburgh Black Knights) 76744 3.5
CB Big Weeze (Cardiff Bluebirds) 97106 5.5
CB Big Marv (Black Forest Mercenaries) 51724 8.5
DT Sienna Miller (Berlin Ballers) 300508 10
SS Tex Willer (Grass Root Divots) 231180 10.5
LB Smash Jenkins (London Rippers) 305125 11
CB Dalton Jay (Black Forest Mercenaries) 45908 11.5
CB Snoop Jones (Dallas Browns) 42423 12.5

TOTAL S TEAMS
CB Deion Johnson (Black Forest Mercenaries) 148411 1.5
CB NNAMDI AS0MUGHA (Korb Destroyers) 135637 4
HB [ GAME BREAKER ] (Lyon Dynasty) 394753 4
K Duke Portland (Grass Root Divots) 38749 6
K Ro Sham Bo (London Hitmen) 103846 6
CB Rika Ishikawa (Edinburgh Black Knights) 406826 6
CB Lord Varys The Spider (A Team of Ice and Fire) 290053 6.5
HB Marcus Rivero (Cardiff Bluebirds) 41042 7.5
K Dennis Deutsch (Korb Destroyers) 39548 8.5
K Matthew Bobson (Stockholm Meatballs) 40970 9.5

PPS: In case anyone wonders about the numbers, these are the player ID and the combined rank scores, I took the list 1:1 from Bort's post. And a further remark, there currently is no way to separate tackles on defense and special teams, so don't expect outstanding special teams tacklers on this kind of list any time soon.

And I'll start the feedback right away with something I already gave as a feedback to Bort, I feel that my own guy Kellogg has no business being on the special teams list. Basically most of his stats come from one game against the CPU Aviators, and even if they go into the formula with just 25% of "normal" games, the 2000 punt return yards and 21 TDs weigh way too heavily if they put him on the list combined with his 0 TDs and 300 punt return yards in the other 15 games combined.

All Alphas figures are all screwed by CPU teams anyway ZZ.

Best player in the league is clearly Duke Portland.

Others:
Just one SS per conf, no FS. If SS & FS are always rated together, it's weighed very heavily in the SS favour.

Really annoying:
No TE
No G
No C
No OT
No WR

Yeah HBs got the big SIM season so their representation is normal (though a bit too much IMO) and QB is a high profile position but you need to include the O-Line (who make or break a HBs season sim exploits aside) & receivers.

I was under the impression that there would be an MVP in each position and no more than 2 per team. Here's the team alphabetical breakdown & their season finish:

ATOIAF x2, 10-6, 8th:
HB Areo Hotah (A Team of Ice and Fire) 386393 1
CB Lord Varys The Spider (A Team of Ice and Fire) 290053 6.5

Antwerp x1, 11-5, 3rd:
HB Arch Griffin (Antwerp Annihilators) 366827 6

Berlin Ballers x3, 7th, 11-5:
DT Sienna Miller (Berlin Ballers) 300508 10
HB Joachim Morrigan (Berlin Ballers) 426543 4
QB Dmitri Makarov (Berlin Ballers) 376453 6

BFM x3, 1st, 16-0:
CB Big Marv (Black Forest Mercenaries) 51724 8.5
CB Dalton Jay (Black Forest Mercenaries) 45908 11.5
CB Deion Johnson (Black Forest Mercenaries) 148411 1.5

Cardiff x3, 10th, 6-10:
HB Marcus Rivero (Cardiff Bluebirds) 41042 7.5
CB Big Weeze (Cardiff Bluebirds) 97106 5.5
HB Johnnie Nitro (Cardiff Bluebirds) 277178 7

Dallas x1, 12th, 5-11:
CB Snoop Jones (Dallas Browns) 42423 12.5

EBK x4, 11th, 5-11:
CB Rika Ishikawa (Edinburgh Black Knights) 406826 6
DE Jason Mayweather (Edinburgh Black Knights) 87612 3.5
LB Bobby Brooks (Edinburgh Black Knights) 76744 3.5
HB Money Dorsett (Edinburgh Black Knights) 169471 4.5

GRD x2, 4th, 11-5:
SS Tex Willer (Grass Root Divots) 231180 10.5
K Duke Portland (Grass Root Divots) 38749 6

Korb x2, 5th, 11-5:
CB NNAMDI AS0MUGHA (Korb Destroyers) 135637 4
K Dennis Deutsch (Korb Destroyers) 39548 8.5

London Hitmen x2, 9th, 8-8:
K Ro Sham Bo (London Hitmen) 103846 6
QB Ace Gunner (London Hitmen) 73649 9.5

London Rippers x3, 13th 5-11:
QB Grey Goose (London Rippers) 30476 9.5
LB Blitz Smith (London Rippers) 137926 1
LB Smash Jenkins (London Rippers) 305125 11

Lyon x1, 14th, 4-12:
HB [ GAME BREAKER ] (Lyon Dynasty) 394753 4

Pimps x1, 6th, 11-5:
HB MB III (Rivals Mainboard Pimps) 33874 9.5

Meatballs x2, 2nd, 11-3:
HB Mal Brown (Stockholm Meatballs) 87194 2
K Matthew Bobson (Stockholm Meatballs) 40970 9.5

Ok, everyone staying in WEPL is getting one, PPP & Sevilla both lose out. No problems there.
Not enough Pimps (sorry ZZ!)
Antwerp x1?

Originally posted by Koncorde
All Alphas figures are all screwed by CPU teams anyway ZZ.
Yeah, but the idea is to devalue those blowout games against CPU teams in this formula, while still letting them have some value I guess. I can't say that eliminating them completely has been ruled out yet, so that might be an option as well.

Originally posted by
Really annoying:
No TE
No G
No C
No OT
No WR

Yes, that is somewhat of a concern, but how can you objectively measure the impact that an OLineman has on a game? There have been proposals, but nothing that is really satisfactory. If anyone has got an idea let's hear it.

As for WRs and TEs, this has been pointed out as well, but might well be the result of the run focus so many teams had this season. Bort posted the lists for Africa as well, and at least in the Elephant Conference two WRs make the list. When Bort posted the initial list back in February with the season 7 data there was one WR on it in Zeta, none on the Alpha one, although Carver made it on to the defensive list. I am fairly certain that that bug was fixed though

As far as I am aware percentage of a teams offense a player accounts for factors into the formula, and that means this season there would be fewer if any WRs as opposed to HBs, might be a different issue next season. An adjustment factor to WRs was suggested, but it seemed as if Bort felt that things might even out next season without such a factor.

As for the "MVP per position", that is what the trophies for stats are for, isn't it? I am not certain whether team MVPs will be calculated, but at least for testing the formula the conference wide approach probably works best anyway due to a bigger sample size.

The problem with the system will always remain - having "stats", especially on D, doesn't mean you were necessarily "doing it right" and conversely a lack of stats doesn't mean you were doing it right either.

Very hard to gauge positions with no clear leaders or way to work out success.

Instead giving all the slamming RB another reward for abusing the AI, they should be completly taken off the list.

One guy who is missing in this list is our TE Atkinsin, 3rd in WEPL in receiving and almost 500 more yards than the second best TE.

Any AWC player will have true stats. We played all 3 CPU teams before they got gutted.

Originally posted by Zickzack
Originally posted by

Really annoying:
No TE
No G
No C
No OT
No WR

Yes, that is somewhat of a concern, but how can you objectively measure the impact that an OLineman has on a game? There have been proposals, but nothing that is really satisfactory. If anyone has got an idea let's hear it.

Surely the lack of sacks, number of pancakes, success of the running game (>snigger< should have a huge impact on the O-lines and should be counted in their stats.

MVP is a stat counter exercise anyway. There should be the wiggle room there for Bort to turn down or up the importance of certain slots in this exercise while not nerfing them totally out of the running (pun intended).

TEs on catches/AYPC/YAC/TDs plus whatever calculation you can give the O-Line (blocks, pancakes, completed passes, rushes for gain on your side of the line).

And for WRs there has to be a total z% on catches, no drops, x for total yards, y for YAC etc. Not his fault he only got thrown to on one play. That has to count and should be able to be counted. Take the last season and give your WR a single ball in every game, if he gets 16 completions, that's pretty impressive. TDs would be nice bonuses but a WR on 16/16 is gold.

Don't tell me Bort can't bring out those sort of stats and come up with a single TE or WR in the entire WEPL worthy of an MVP gong.

Originally posted by CoachSherman
Any AWC player will have true stats. We played all 3 CPU teams before they got gutted.

Jimmy Johnston as Alpha Defensive MVP is probably the only undisputed MVP

Originally posted by CoachSherman
Any AWC player will have true stats. We played all 3 CPU teams before they got gutted.

Same as Belfast

I agree the positions not listed need to be represented. Tbh I think there should be a way for the league to vote on these. (the computer generates a ballot for each position and automatically pms it to the owners in the league)
And yeah definitely not enough PIMPs

where is Corey Smith!?!?

Originally posted by coreyls18
where is Corey Smith!?!?

in AAA?

As much as I agree that it would be nice if OLinemen could make this list, I don't agree that they need to be represented. Keep in mind that this is supposed to be an MVP competition, and who here has ever heard of an OLinemen (and to a lesser extent a TE) being considered for team MVP, let alone for league MVP? In that regard such a list would actually reflect reality, even if something else might be more desireable.