Warrior General Games

So my Level 38 NT played his first post-VA game yesterday. I know it's only one game and a scrimmage game at that but so far I would have to say my initial assessment of Heavyweight is correct: D-Linemen (and DTs especially) that passed on this one are going to be slapping themselves - and their DCs will probably give them a second slap for it.

"Brick Wall" Bailey was blowing up blockers ALL DAY in that game. Regularly putting the Center and/or Guard on their asses and opening the floodgates for our linebackers and safeties to get into the backfield. The team we played were higher level than us almost across the board and Brick was working against Level 40 and 41 C/G the entire game. We held them to 10 points and 1.5 yards per carry and our defense was CONSTANTLY in the backfield, usually going through hole that Brick created by flattening his blockers.

Like I said, it's only one game and only a scrimmage, we'll see how it goes during the real season but Heavyweight looks to be teh pwnage right now, IMO.

Yea he did appear to dominate that line. You have 100 str & 15 in it ?

93.78 Strength, only 7 points in HW. I went for Natural Leader first to boost D-Line General. Now I wish I would've put the 10 in HW and 7 in NL (can't go to 15 yet, he isn't level 40).

I can tell you this, every VP I get from this point forward will go into Heavyweight until it's maxed out.

I put 10 points into Heavy Weight on my DT and it worked pretty well his first game. He regularly blew up his blockers and got a couple sacks and huries.

has anyone seen success with heavyweight with players with less strength (say 60)

Can you show us some specific plays? I watched the first half and while I saw a couple of times when it might be arguable heavyweight helped, I saw a lot of the TFLs coming from this sort of thing:

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=345402&pbp_id=351708
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=345402&pbp_id=351211
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=345402&pbp_id=351249
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=345402&pbp_id=353386
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=345402&pbp_id=354351
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=345402&pbp_id=354377
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=345402&pbp_id=354633

Not that you played poorly or anything, your NT was very quick off the blocks and looked pretty athletic, but I just didn't see them run at you, at least not on the less than 1 yard gainers in the 1st half.

My 2 DTs had a great game and they don't have anything in heavy weight. Just tons of Agility and Quick VAs. I think that DTs just got a boost this season. Not sure Heavy Weight is the cause of this however.

my dt relies on agility and the quick VA. he got 14 hurries and 2 sacks from the d.t. position. but I guess it's good news to see str is working betteR?

Heavyweight lookin really good for any DT with 60+ strength IMO

It will be almost impossible to know how well the +X% chance VAs are working because none of us knows the current % chance of the ability to work without the VA.

So with Heavyweight, first you have a % chance of breaking the block. Let's be generous and say 40%. Then you have a base stat that says breaking the block will result in the blocker being knocked down. Let's again be generous and say 5% (based upon the number of pancakes I've seen from D-Linemen). Maxing out Heavyweight will increase that to 35%. So on any play your base % chance of pancaking the O-Lineman went from 2% to 14%.

But what if the first factor (40%) is much lower? 20%? Is increasing from 1% to 7% really meaningful? Wouldn't you be better off pumping up your base stats (Strength, Stamina, Agility) or D-Line General via Natural Leader to help the whole team?

Actually, Bort has said VAs are multiplicative, so if you had a 5% chance to pancake the blocker, then maxed heavyweight would give you a 6.5% chance. He did suggest he increased the ability for defense to get pancakes, though, so it may not be 5% anymore. Doesn't really change your point, of course - just more reason to be skeptical of Heavyweight until evidence is in.

Did Bort give an example? My reading of the VAs is that some are multiplicative (adding to the base attributes) and some are additive (adding to the % chance that an event will be triggered).

If all are multiplicative, then the example I gave above would be 40% (break the block) * 5% (pancake the blocker) * 45% (if the +3% VA is maxed out) = 5.9%. So maxing out heavyweight increases your pancake the blocker ability by .9%. Then factoring in if pancaking the blocker makes any difference at all on the play and you're left with a VA that truly sucks.

Well, it's in the FAQ:


Are percentages on abilities multiplicative or additive?
They are multiplicative. If you have a 50% chance to do something, and an ability gives you a +10% bonus, you now have a 55% chance to do that thing.

I do understand what you mean, though. It's always possible Heavyweight is different for some reason, but I think you'll find the VAs that give you an absolute % chance of something use the word "chance" whereas VAs that multiply an existing % chance are referred to giving a "bonus" ... which is exactly the word the FAQ uses, and coincidentally the same word in the Heavyweight SA.

Originally posted by UnderDogs
my dt relies on agility and the quick VA. he got 14 hurries and 2 sacks from the d.t. position. but I guess it's good news to see str is working betteR?

+1 bort made str DT good again.

Anyone have or seen a less than 60 str DE reverse pancake an OT?

Send me a PM and we can break down correlations if builds are an issue.