Is this skill even worth developing? All is says is that it makes catching easier on low thrown balls, how often does that happen? Just curious to see what people think.
PackMan97
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You tell me? How often to balls stop right at your dot as an incomplete? Is it worth raising diving catch over some other attribute to turn those into catches?
BSUblemler
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I have no clue that's why I'm asking. To be honest, I guess I haven't looked that close.
Mob-6
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The answer is "probably" if you have a possession receiver. I can't tell from the dots which of the 4 possession SAs would have made a difference on any throw-jumping, diving, sticky hands, etc.
PackMan97
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^ Mob-6, it's fairly easy for jump/diving.
Jump Catch - Ball sails past WR for a good 10 yards. It was thrown high.
Diving Catch - Ball stops at feet (but not a drop)
One Handed - Not sure.
Sticky - Not sure.
Jump Catch - Ball sails past WR for a good 10 yards. It was thrown high.
Diving Catch - Ball stops at feet (but not a drop)
One Handed - Not sure.
Sticky - Not sure.
Mob-6
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Good point.
If jumping helps with catching and jump catch is essentially a boost to jumping,
what stat is diving catch boosting do you think, vision or agility?
If jumping helps with catching and jump catch is essentially a boost to jumping,
what stat is diving catch boosting do you think, vision or agility?
Last edited Oct 22, 2008 09:53:16
JD Cuda
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Originally posted by PackMan97
I would think jumping as well. kinda gotta jump to dive?
Jumping's supposed to help on Diving Tackle, so I'd think it would for Diving Catch too.
I would think jumping as well. kinda gotta jump to dive?
Jumping's supposed to help on Diving Tackle, so I'd think it would for Diving Catch too.
Mob-6
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Wouldn't that mean the following:
Jump catch stretches your catching radius vertical.
Diving catch stretches your catching radius horizontally.
Jumping stretches the radius both directions? Therefore it would be better to allocate all your points into jumping rather than either jumping or diving catch? I think diving catch has to boost something more than jumping.
Jump catch stretches your catching radius vertical.
Diving catch stretches your catching radius horizontally.
Jumping stretches the radius both directions? Therefore it would be better to allocate all your points into jumping rather than either jumping or diving catch? I think diving catch has to boost something more than jumping.
PackMan97
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This is the way I imagine it working.
* Jumping Catch - Increases max vertical range, bonus to catching
* Diving Catch - Increase horizontal range, decreases min vertical range, bonus to catching.
Both of them likely give a bonus to catching, which is not something jumping can do by itself. In addition, diving catch likely improves the chance to catch a very low ball, something jumping can't do.
The biggest issue with balancing raw skills vs specials is how much is enough?
Obviously, if I can spend 4 skill points in jumping and increase by +3% my targets caught, while spending 4 skill points in jump catching only increases targets caught by +2%...it's obvious which is better. Unfortunately, we don't know the affect our changes have except for after the fact in which there are too many factors to really accurately measure.
* Jumping Catch - Increases max vertical range, bonus to catching
* Diving Catch - Increase horizontal range, decreases min vertical range, bonus to catching.
Both of them likely give a bonus to catching, which is not something jumping can do by itself. In addition, diving catch likely improves the chance to catch a very low ball, something jumping can't do.
The biggest issue with balancing raw skills vs specials is how much is enough?
Obviously, if I can spend 4 skill points in jumping and increase by +3% my targets caught, while spending 4 skill points in jump catching only increases targets caught by +2%...it's obvious which is better. Unfortunately, we don't know the affect our changes have except for after the fact in which there are too many factors to really accurately measure.
WizardofWar
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excellent thread and one that my team and i have been contemplating forever. I have already posted a suggestion in the 'suggestion' forum begging bort to please add in something that gives us WR's SOME indication of what happened on the play. <diving catch>...<jumping catch>...one handed..etc.
this way we could actually use some concrete data to base our future investment points on as opposed to turning on the fog machine and asking the football gods what to do!
this way we could actually use some concrete data to base our future investment points on as opposed to turning on the fog machine and asking the football gods what to do!
Originally posted by BSUblemler
Is this skill even worth developing? All is says is that it makes catching easier on low thrown balls, how often does that happen? Just curious to see what people think.
The easiest way to think of Jump Catch and Diving Catch is as follows.
The WR dot has a three dimensional circle( a sphere) around him and that circle is like an archer's target. So in the center is 100% radiating out to 0% at it's edge. The Jumping attribute increase the total dimensions on the circle, widening the area that you can attempt to catch the ball. Basically increasing the sphere of influence. This is seen in more than one position in GLB. So Bort has stated jumping increases the range of jump tackle (essentially increasing the sphere of influence of defenders).
Back to WRs. The WR's sphere of influence has a 'catching check' based on where the ball is in relation to the WRs. This is best explained by the 'Archer's target.' The closer the ball is to the WR, the greater chance to catch the ball.
Now, as has been said before, Jump Catch works on the horizontal by both increasing the upward radius of the sphere and the vertical catching percentages and the Diving catch works on the horizontal.
The main issue comes down to the idea of 'low passes' as the click issue has shown that passes can be considered too low to catch, even when combined with SAs.
My view, as above, on this was documented on GLB Radio on the 19th of October 2008, when we looked at the WR incomplete bug.
Originally posted by PackMan97
^ Mob-6, it's fairly easy for jump/diving.
Jump Catch - Ball sails past WR for a good 10 yards. It was thrown high.
Diving Catch - Ball stops at feet (but not a drop)
One Handed - Not sure.
Sticky - Not sure.
Sticky Hands is more of a confidence and catching modifier, IMO.
Where as One Handing Catch seems to be a combination of Jump Catch and Diving Catch. The insinuation of 'Out of Range Ball' implies that it all so increases the 'sphere of influence' but in all directions and has the bonus of a offensive morale boost when it occurs.
This poses a more interesting question. With three SA effectively being jumping modifiers. Is jumping a much more important attribute for a slower WR? Could it possibly be the 'speed' of the possession receiver?
Is this skill even worth developing? All is says is that it makes catching easier on low thrown balls, how often does that happen? Just curious to see what people think.
The easiest way to think of Jump Catch and Diving Catch is as follows.
The WR dot has a three dimensional circle( a sphere) around him and that circle is like an archer's target. So in the center is 100% radiating out to 0% at it's edge. The Jumping attribute increase the total dimensions on the circle, widening the area that you can attempt to catch the ball. Basically increasing the sphere of influence. This is seen in more than one position in GLB. So Bort has stated jumping increases the range of jump tackle (essentially increasing the sphere of influence of defenders).
Back to WRs. The WR's sphere of influence has a 'catching check' based on where the ball is in relation to the WRs. This is best explained by the 'Archer's target.' The closer the ball is to the WR, the greater chance to catch the ball.
Now, as has been said before, Jump Catch works on the horizontal by both increasing the upward radius of the sphere and the vertical catching percentages and the Diving catch works on the horizontal.
The main issue comes down to the idea of 'low passes' as the click issue has shown that passes can be considered too low to catch, even when combined with SAs.
My view, as above, on this was documented on GLB Radio on the 19th of October 2008, when we looked at the WR incomplete bug.
Originally posted by PackMan97
^ Mob-6, it's fairly easy for jump/diving.
Jump Catch - Ball sails past WR for a good 10 yards. It was thrown high.
Diving Catch - Ball stops at feet (but not a drop)
One Handed - Not sure.
Sticky - Not sure.
Sticky Hands is more of a confidence and catching modifier, IMO.
Where as One Handing Catch seems to be a combination of Jump Catch and Diving Catch. The insinuation of 'Out of Range Ball' implies that it all so increases the 'sphere of influence' but in all directions and has the bonus of a offensive morale boost when it occurs.
This poses a more interesting question. With three SA effectively being jumping modifiers. Is jumping a much more important attribute for a slower WR? Could it possibly be the 'speed' of the possession receiver?
Last edited Oct 24, 2008 04:36:48
Mob-6
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Originally posted by Vawn
Is jumping a much more important attribute for a slower WR? Could it possibly be the 'speed' of the possession receiver?
It could be, but I don't think so. My level 18 WR who has 25 jumping really started to snag wild balls when I switched out his EQ from speed to catching taking that up to the 70s. I think catching is the "speed" stat of the possession WR and if you want you could say jumping is the agility.
Is jumping a much more important attribute for a slower WR? Could it possibly be the 'speed' of the possession receiver?
It could be, but I don't think so. My level 18 WR who has 25 jumping really started to snag wild balls when I switched out his EQ from speed to catching taking that up to the 70s. I think catching is the "speed" stat of the possession WR and if you want you could say jumping is the agility.
Last edited Oct 24, 2008 09:54:42
Phoenixstrike
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Originally posted by Mob-6
Originally posted by Vawn
Is jumping a much more important attribute for a slower WR? Could it possibly be the 'speed' of the possession receiver?
It could be, but I don't think so. My level 18 WR who has 25 jumping really started to snag wild balls when I switched out his EQ from speed to catching taking that up to the 70s. I think catching is the "speed" stat of the possession WR and if you want you could say jumping is the agility.
I can verify that the switch to a high catching stat works. My LV 21 possession WR has a 24 jumping and 70+ catching. He's been catching way more passes lately. I believe that jumping is VERY important for a possession WR. Bort in his own roundabout way even "tells" us. When you go to train jumping and catching together Bort calls it....possession catching drills. I don't think this is a coincidence.
Originally posted by Vawn
Is jumping a much more important attribute for a slower WR? Could it possibly be the 'speed' of the possession receiver?
It could be, but I don't think so. My level 18 WR who has 25 jumping really started to snag wild balls when I switched out his EQ from speed to catching taking that up to the 70s. I think catching is the "speed" stat of the possession WR and if you want you could say jumping is the agility.
I can verify that the switch to a high catching stat works. My LV 21 possession WR has a 24 jumping and 70+ catching. He's been catching way more passes lately. I believe that jumping is VERY important for a possession WR. Bort in his own roundabout way even "tells" us. When you go to train jumping and catching together Bort calls it....possession catching drills. I don't think this is a coincidence.
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