Warrior General Games

This post is just a thought I had today about the merits of the shutdown coverage ability. If you think this is complete rubbish, please disregard. However, I think the topic is worth considering.

I see a lot of posts telling would-be corners to invest points into shutdown coverage. The problem is that shutdown only gives the bonus in man coverage. it also isn't clear how large that bonus is. it also means that you have to put points into smooth operator which, right now, is 100% useless (it eventually will have a use, but for now it does not. to futureproof your CB its probably smart to have a few points there).

My question is this: how much better is shutdown coverage than an equivalent amount of points spent in change direction and first step?

First, lets look at the the points spent. To get 10 in SC, you must first put 5 points in smooth operator (we will assume you already have 3 points in super vision). That is a total of 49 SA points. Those 49 points only help you man-to-man coverage.

On the other hand, you can spend those same 49 points and get any combination of 10/7 or 9/8 of first step/change direction. points in both of these will help you in both man and zone coverage as well as on returns, picks, and fumble recoveries. To me, that seems like it is maybe a better value. The determining factor would be how much of a bonus each provides which is, of yet, unknown.

Thoughts?

supervision, first-step and Change direction is more important right now for CBs

With the way this game changes from season to season I do not think anyone can figure out what is best until the dust settles in 2-3 more seasons. By then it will be too late to change. JMHO - But I would be willing to try this with SLH.

Originally posted by Negronic
This post is just a thought I had today about the merits of the shutdown coverage ability. If you think this is complete rubbish, please disregard. However, I think the topic is worth considering.

I see a lot of posts telling would-be corners to invest points into shutdown coverage. The problem is that shutdown only gives the bonus in man coverage. it also isn't clear how large that bonus is. it also means that you have to put points into smooth operator which, right now, is 100% useless (it eventually will have a use, but for now it does not. to futureproof your CB its probably smart to have a few points there).

My question is this: how much better is shutdown coverage than an equivalent amount of points spent in change direction and first step?

First, lets look at the the points spent. To get 10 in SC, you must first put 5 points in smooth operator (we will assume you already have 3 points in super vision). That is a total of 49 SA points. Those 49 points only help you man-to-man coverage.

On the other hand, you can spend those same 49 points and get any combination of 10/7 or 9/8 of first step/change direction. points in both of these will help you in both man and zone coverage as well as on returns, picks, and fumble recoveries. To me, that seems like it is maybe a better value. The determining factor would be how much of a bonus each provides which is, of yet, unknown.

Thoughts?

I've yet to see an effective zone defense. There may be one out there, but I haven't seen it yet. That plays a big role in it, too. Additionally, this is where you could start getting into zone corners vs man-to-man corners. A good team would understand the difference and cater their coverages to what they have. No point in mixing and matching and then having a team that's only so-so at both when you can have corners that are great at either.

I rarely see the Cover 2/zone scheme stop much.

Maybe its the players on the team I D-Co. Maybe its poor situational play calling on me. I don't know.

All I know is that its been phased out of 97% of my playbooks.

Originally posted by Billy Corman
I rarely see the Cover 2/zone scheme stop much.

Maybe its the players on the team I D-Co. Maybe its poor situational play calling on me. I don't know.

All I know is that its been phased out of 97% of my playbooks.

I'm pretty sure it just doesn't work right now. Problem with translating zone to a game, such as this or Madden, is it either works too well or not well enough. In reality, there are guys (The Giants were loaded with them last year) who can stick to any guy at all if you play him man, but can't cover a whole zone properly, and there's corners that are bad at man (Think most every corner in Tampa Bay in the last 10 years) but play zones phenomenally well. The defenses just don't translate to games.

I think that you are an overall better player if you get first step and change direction up rather than shutdown. Personally, I would take those 49 SP, and put them into Super Vision (8), First Step (6) and Change Direction (8).

Originally posted by Backes-to-Backes
With the way this game changes from season to season I do not think anyone can figure out what is best until the dust settles in 10-20 more seasons. By then it will be too late to change. JMHO - But I would be willing to try this with SLH.

Fixed. Changes have been bolded.

There are some decent options for Safeties and maybe LBs in zones, but I have to agree that playing CBs in zone doesn't seem to work well in GLB right now. Maybe if you did focus entirely on speedy SAs, including a lot of Closing Speed.. but you'd still need the Super Vision, so you're left with going extra-far down the Speedster tree (3 abilities: Return Spec, Blitz, and Closing Speed) compared to taking the man to man route (2 abilities: Smooth Operator and Shutdown Coverage). What's more, 2 of those extra abilities are worthless for zone. You COULD try some blitzes, but they'd probably be pretty damn obvious ("Hey look, that CB who's been playing zone is suddenly way up at the line of scrimmage, I wonder what he's doing?"). If anything, the existance of the Shutdown Coverage SA is just another strong argument in favour of man to man. (Also, I'm not sure Closing Speed does much, as my FS has a few levels, plays a lot of zone, and doesn't seem to be any faster than the CBs. They've all got similar speeds, but have different SA load-outs, with the FS having decidedly more speed-like SAs.)

What's more, I question the value of First Step for CBs. It's a chance-to-work SA, which is pretty risky.. there are WRs on several teams I'm on who have it at 6 and higher, and it only seems to go off a few times a game for them. In coverage, I'd guess that the extra acceleration off the snap would only really help when the WR ALSO got the boost, which is just twice as rare. However, there's no doubt that Change Direction is pretty good, as it's always in effect.. just like SC. And since they always work, you don't need to take them up super high to get the bonus, whereas to make FS somewhat reliable, I imagine you would.

And on the subject of 'how strong is SC anyways,' it's a pretty sizeable boost. I remember getting the first few levels of it in the teens (lol early builds), and there was a very obvious boost in performance for each level. I'd guess something like +3-5 speed & agility per level.

Originally posted by brock86

And on the subject of 'how strong is SC anyways,' it's a pretty sizeable boost. I remember getting the first few levels of it in the teens (lol early builds), and there was a very obvious boost in performance for each level. I'd guess something like +3-5 speed & agility per level.


I don't think it's that much. I think it's % based, and each level gives diminishing return.

Do First Step and Change Direction ONLY work in coverage? Or would they also work on KR/PR?

CD works always, and can be very helpful for a WR as well as a CB.

First Step + Change Direction both to 9: Costs 50 points.

Assuming you already have Superior Vision up like you should if you're a Man corner, then getting Shutdown Coverage to 9 only costs 43 points.

43<50

Originally posted by LionsLover
Originally posted by brock86


And on the subject of 'how strong is SC anyways,' it's a pretty sizeable boost. I remember getting the first few levels of it in the teens (lol early builds), and there was a very obvious boost in performance for each level. I'd guess something like +3-5 speed & agility per level.


I don't think it's that much. I think it's % based, and each level gives diminishing return.

This is bad info. Bort is on record as saying the first 10 levels of each SA grant the same bonus, with diminishing returns coming into play after level 10.

Actually, First Step and Change Direction both affect only Agility. Shutdown Coverage "Gives a boost to Speed, Agility, and Pass Deflecting". SC>FS/CD.