Warrior General Games

Currently building a blocking FB and trying to decide how to approach his design, and have a few things I want to confirm. Main query I have is value of strength to the position. As primarily a player that will be picking up blocks on LB i'm curious whether anyone has tried leaving strength as a secondary stat and not working it early.

What i'm considering is attempting something like second softcapping blocking, developing speed/agility equally through intense training until you can softcap speed, and switch training focus to agility/strength when that time arrives.

What i'm wondering is firstly, has anyone tried such a design, and secondly, are there any issues with leaving strength low until lvl20 or so?

Hi

For a FB strength > blocking; you don't need to hold the blocks very long, it's more important to push them back. Remember that Strength, Blocking, Agility and Carrying are the skills that get 0.5 per level automatically, so there's really no point in softcapping speed before those skills, if you intend to softcap any of them. Blocking to 60 would of course be better than 48, but remember that you have 4 skills (Str, Agi, Blk, Speed) that you will want softcapped for sure. You also want confidence/vision at 30+ (Or more), good carrying if you're used as a rusher, some catching/jumping, stamina, and if you're both rushing and blocking then you want skills in both SA trees. Basically there's so much you want that you're really better off to get all those other skills than working "too much" on one.

On my latest FB I softcapped strength, then blocking, and then agility, and will now focus on speed.

Strength is more important for an FB? Will run through my reasoning and can you explain where i'm off. FB either blocks a LB/SS to freeze them in the hole or double teams the DE/NT/DT to help out on the block is my basic assumption.

Run blocking

When blocking the DE, the OT will be doing the pushing with their strength, a lot of DE have low strength, and thus our primary role is to take the inner edge and keep the DE from reaching out and grabbing the HB in passing.

When matching up on the DT/NT, the centre or guard will provide the strength part of the block, the FB needs to keep the outer edge blocked and keep the DT reaching out, again I see blocking being more valuable than strength, but by a lesser margin as the NT will have a lot of strength.

When blocking the SS/LB, we can assume that the FB nails them about 3-5yds past the line of scrimmage if they have the speed/agility to reach them, with that in mind the need to push them back would be limited, and with the LB having probably only about 40-50 strength, we won't get beat down by strength. There will be space either side if the RG/ROT or LOT/LG are doing their jobs, and all we need to do is keep the LB reaching out, the need to push back would be limited.

Pass blocking

Main job of the FB is to double team where necessary, basically slowing down an agile DE of DT so the powerful OT/G can get them under control, or the FB has to simply get in the way of a speedy blitzing LB, and slow them down, again no need to power anyone around.


In all those situations i'm struggling to see the point where excessive strength immediately plays a key part. I can certainly see where it would assist given that the FB already have other important stats, but surely blocking would be the more important part of the process. Wouldn't a blocking FB benefit more from being mobile and being involved in the blocks quicker thus enabling the line to get to grips with the D sooner, and wrap them up more firmly. I'm picturing it more as an assistant going around and tucking in the oppositions arms and legs while the O-line do the meat of the job. Is this where i'm off with my idea of the FB, or is there another overpowering reason i'm missing where the strength plays a part.

Originally posted by TtD


In all those situations i'm struggling to see the point where excessive strength immediately plays a key part. I can certainly see where it would assist given that the FB already have other important stats, but surely blocking would be the more important part of the process. Wouldn't a blocking FB benefit more from being mobile and being involved in the blocks quicker thus enabling the line to get to grips with the D sooner, and wrap them up more firmly. I'm picturing it more as an assistant going around and tucking in the oppositions arms and legs while the O-line do the meat of the job. Is this where i'm off with my idea of the FB, or is there another overpowering reason i'm missing where the strength plays a part.

Lathund is telling you correctly.

If you were just waiting for a response so you could disagree, why even make the thread.

Sometimes I wonder if my FB even needed 50 block. I bet she'd be better if I had spent those 25 SP in str and had her at 90+ instead of 85 str.

I'm asking People to correct where my assumption is wrong Tito. As Lathund knows, I tend to analyse stuff a fair bit, and like different views when i'm designing something, or making a big decision, it helps stop me putting my foot in it. I explain where my thinking is going, and ask people to pull out the weaknesses. I'm told strength is a key factor, please can you highlight where the strength gives a benefit to the role. I'm coming from nothing here so I need reasoning and examples before I adjust the hypothesis.

Originally posted by TtD
I'm asking People to correct where my assumption is wrong Tito. As Lathund knows, I tend to analyse stuff a fair bit, and like different views when i'm designing something, or making a big decision, it helps stop me putting my foot in it. I explain where my thinking is going, and ask people to pull out the weaknesses. I'm told strength is a key factor, please can you highlight where the strength gives a benefit to the role. I'm coming from nothing here so I need reasoning and examples before I adjust the hypothesis.

An ideal play for a fullback would be to pancake a linebacker and move on to a safety on an inside run. The strength is required to pancake a linebacker with 50 str. The strength also helps move defenders out of the hole so the HB can get through.

In pass blocking, you need the strength because you may not be blocking a DE. You may need to help with a DT and the more strength the better.

Speed Helped, Agility helped, vision is overrated and makes your blocking erratic, blocking helps, strength is king.

Ok, can get where your coming from with the pancake, 2nd block thing. Next question then, how much would the FB strength play in this DT double team situation you mention. If you were playing with a super strong but not so agile lineman, would the strength of the FB still matter a lot, or could you get away with just guiding the DT into the lineman. Would the DT just dodge the lineman, flatten you and get to the QB? I'm not coming from a position where strength has no value, as it were, but assuming that with less points in strength, you could maybe supercharge other key stats and just train it up to be at a workable level. Could extra blocking/agility ever compensate the lesser strength, or is it just such a crucial stat that it would kill the build?

Well you could spin things both ways; you could have the FB providing the strength part of a block and the OT the blocking. Likewise, a C at lvl 20+ will have 70 blocking already, so the same could be true there.

Pushing someone backwards or holding him more effectively blocked in one spot will have the same effect, to keep the player from making a tackle.

In the secondary you usually can do those 1-2 second blocks with low str and blocking so there it doesn't matter a whole lot which you have more of to be fair, except for on those occasions where you can pancake one defender and have time to block another one as well. Which isn't too often, but it happens.

When pass blocking I've very rarely seen a D-lineman break one of those double-team blocks even with my FBs with only 50 blocking. The way I see strength and blocking when pass blocking is that strength is what stops the blitzer in his tracks, while blocking is what keeps him him stopped there. So the way you describe it, I think strength would work better. Low strength would see that DT push you towards the QB, collapsing the pocket and perhaps recording a hurry by proximity. Then again low blocking could have him get loose. Balance, as always, is key.

I don't see your point about the mobile part, as a FB with strength instead of blocking wouldn't have any less mobility. There's also the rushing aspect; strength helps tremendously with rushing, while blocking doesn't. Same with passing. If your FB never rushes then it's irrelevant, but that could always change. I'm no fan of the rushing FB, but they have their uses, for example as a goal-line option in a team with only elusive backs. So even a dedicated blocker (Like my FBs) shouldn't neglect that aspect completely.

The main thing though is that I'd seriously advice against spending 4 levels to boost blocking 10 points when you could spend those boosting strength/agility/speed/stamina/vision/carrying/SAs by 20. I've got a lvl 33 FB and I wouldn't mind another 10 points to max carrying, another 20 to get decent rushing SAs and so on.

By all means try a blocking route, but do it with both strength and blocking softcapped ASAP but with equipment on blocking. Softcap blocking first if you so want, but do strength second. That way you'll still have 75+ blocking in your mid twenties, and you don't need more than that. Also remember the synergy; blocking without strength can't hold anyone. Strength without blocking doesn't allow you to hold them long enough to push them.

of course I could be wrong about str > blocking, but what I know I'm not wrong about is that neglecting strength is a bad idea. The fact that we get those 0.5 points per level to it should mean that if you ever intend to softcap it; do it early.

Seems solid Lathund, ideally of course someone has already tried what i'm thinking and can intervene here. If not I guess it's a matter of deciding whether I want to try it as an experimental test build or not. Have enough players so might be fun to try the odd route.

I wouldn't leave strength low. And I haven't tried it because it's a bad idea.

Tito's statement was accurate, that the ideal play for a FB would be to pick up a LB and pancake him, then move to the SS. Most LB's have raised their strength up to at least the cap, so you're going to need quite a bit more than that to knock them down or push them back.

strength is PRIME for FB's .. stop discussing it everybody..

strength !! ALL THE WAY and a little blocking..

period..

dix

Have worked out the costs and stuff, and as it was intended originally as a muck about player I think I will try for it. I agree that there should be some big faults with the build, but if no-one has tried it in depth it's a chance to prove the common sense idea. If nothing else, it'll give you guys a build to bring up if anyone else asks the question.

Originally posted by TtD
Have worked out the costs and stuff, and as it was intended originally as a muck about player I think I will try for it. I agree that there should be some big faults with the build, but if no-one has tried it in depth it's a chance to prove the common sense idea. If nothing else, it'll give you guys a build to bring up if anyone else asks the question.

I don't think you are gonna have issues running a high blocking build as long as you have speed, agility, and str to go with it.

This is my FB, and I love her to death.

Strength: 72.5 Blocking: 50.5
Speed: 48 Tackling: 14.2
Agility: 48.72 Throwing: 9
Jumping: 8 Catching: 14.2
Stamina: 27.68 Carrying: 25.5
Vision: 25.4 Kicking: 8
Confidence: 20.78 Punting: 8

1,1,1,1,1
0,0,0,0,0

She gets a couple of pancakes per game and is a force at the goalline (which is about the only time we give her the ball).

Thinking of aiming for something like (counting equipment), hmm...

Strength 50
Blocking 70
Speed 50
Agility 60
Vision 40

Kinda like a slightly modified OT.

Originally posted by TtD
Thinking of aiming for something like (counting equipment), hmm...

Strength 50
Blocking 70
Speed 50
Agility 60
Vision 40

Kinda like a slightly modified OT.

Until they fix vision, you should make that the lowest priority.

Vision higher than 30 tends to mean that your FB will ignore the hole and just go block whoever the toughest Defensive lineman is. They tend to be the highest threats on defense.

Let's say its an inside run on the guard-tackle gap. Your FB will just run by the hole and block the DE even tho they are already being blocked.

Vision sucks on offense.