Warrior General Games

NH,

Look folks, don't be so serious. I'm playing up the curse thing basically making fun our our own big game futility.

I'm not saying that your game planning wasn't excellent, or that it didn't play a meaningful role in your win. It did. And I'm not trying to take away from your win. Like I said in my previous post, we might have cruised to victory without NH's good game planning. I was reacting to anyone intimating that the reason we lose in conf finals is not luck at all, but that we get out game planned in those conf final games. I just don't think it is true. There is an element of luck to the simulations right? I think we all can agree on that. So, NH won on a late touchdown drive and it could have gone either way. So I don't see how I'm being insulting by saying that we have a curse (or some rotten luck) because we never win one of these toss up simulations in the conf final.

Originally posted by Nike-Joe
NH,

Look folks, don't be so serious. I'm playing up the curse thing basically making fun our our own big game futility.

I'm not saying that your game planning wasn't excellent, or that it didn't play a meaningful role in your win. It did. And I'm not trying to take away from your win. Like I said in my previous post, we might have cruised to victory without NH's good game planning. I was reacting to anyone intimating that the reason we lose in conf finals is not luck at all, but that we get out game planned in those conf final games. I just don't think it is true. There is an element of luck to the simulations right? I think we all can agree on that. So, NH won on a late touchdown drive and it could have gone either way. So I don't see how I'm being insulting by saying that we have a curse (or some rotten luck) because we never win one of these toss up simulations in the conf final.

Yes and no. I agree therte is an element of luck, yes. No question about it. The game could have gone either way. I also stated, repeatedly, I think you'd beat us more often than not.
Likewise, with the previous AI, there was a tremendous amount of luck involved because all you could do was set tendencies and hope it picked right.

But I don't think closing the gap between a 3 score loss and a narrow win is all about luck or curses either. I don't think the 7+ hours spent scouting 4 games for tendencies, plays, what worked and didn't, where there were gaps in coverages on what types of sets, what offensive line mismatches we had per where we and other teams got any push at all on your line, which receiver was open when, etc. is about luck.

I totally redesigned our already pretty detailed defensive playbook for that game. Whether some of the plays worked or not? Yeah, that was luck. We got some breaks. We didn't exactly force a ton of fumbles and pick of 5 passes either though. That would have been randomness and luck. We didn't have a clearly and totally superior completion percentage where you had tons of drops.

There is some luck involved. And yes, its a game. but its one I spend money on, and one I put a ton of time into. And to attirubte a couple of pretty big upsets, given past history to a little bit of game planning and a lot of luck is what I find insulting.

You guys do an excellent job. You have some excellent players and always have. You don't dominate for no reason, and you haven't just gotten lucky for whole seasons 3 seasons in a row. You're damned good, and I've always said so and respected that. You have a good team and a good plan based around it, and your 3 seasons of dominance and 10-3 record vs. some very good teams haven't been about luck.

But those 3 games aren't just bad luck and curses either. And if I'm taking it a little seriously, it might have something to do with pretty much every spare minute I had for 4 days being put into scouting and planning that game and then the Vikings game.

The difference between winning that one by 3-7 and losing by 3-7 - absolutely luck. the difference between getting crushed by NBSK and finally being able to keep it close wasn't.

Originally posted by Nike-Joe
NH,

Look folks, don't be so serious. I'm playing up the curse thing basically making fun our our own big game futility.

I'm not saying that your game planning wasn't excellent, or that it didn't play a meaningful role in your win. It did. And I'm not trying to take away from your win. Like I said in my previous post, we might have cruised to victory without NH's good game planning. I was reacting to anyone intimating that the reason we lose in conf finals is not luck at all, but that we get out game planned in those conf final games. I just don't think it is true. There is an element of luck to the simulations right? I think we all can agree on that. So, NH won on a late touchdown drive and it could have gone either way. So I don't see how I'm being insulting by saying that we have a curse (or some rotten luck) because we never win one of these toss up simulations in the conf final.

Agreed. There really is a certain amount of luck that comes into the equation. Shoot, we beat DVD in round 2 because we won the coin toss in OT. That game was back and forth for four straight quarters. Whose to say if they won the coin toss they wouldn't have driven down field for a FG? Or take the conference championship against Death Valley for example. Our kicker is the best in the league and had missed 2 FGs all season. Yet, he misses that 48yd FG with 5 seconds left to win the game.

There really is just a certain amount of randomness that you can't control. I mean, the game is built around to a certain degree, right?

Originally posted by Morphius
Originally posted by Nike-Joe

NH,

Look folks, don't be so serious. I'm playing up the curse thing basically making fun our our own big game futility.

I'm not saying that your game planning wasn't excellent, or that it didn't play a meaningful role in your win. It did. And I'm not trying to take away from your win. Like I said in my previous post, we might have cruised to victory without NH's good game planning. I was reacting to anyone intimating that the reason we lose in conf finals is not luck at all, but that we get out game planned in those conf final games. I just don't think it is true. There is an element of luck to the simulations right? I think we all can agree on that. So, NH won on a late touchdown drive and it could have gone either way. So I don't see how I'm being insulting by saying that we have a curse (or some rotten luck) because we never win one of these toss up simulations in the conf final.

Agreed. There really is a certain amount of luck that comes into the equation. Shoot, we beat DVD in round 2 because we won the coin toss in OT. That game was back and forth for four straight quarters. Whose to say if they won the coin toss they wouldn't have driven down field for a FG? Or take the conference championship against Death Valley for example. Our kicker is the best in the league and had missed 2 FGs all season. Yet, he misses that 48yd FG with 5 seconds left to win the game.

There really is just a certain amount of randomness that you can't control. I mean, the game is built around to a certain degree, right?

Not arguing that at all. A missed field goal or a made field goal is luck. Whether we made that last pass in the game vs. NBSK or not is luck.
Keeping an entire game close vs. a team we'd never come within 2 scores of is what I'm saying is not 'a little game planning and a lot of luck'.

I can't argue that NBSK has had some rough luck, and probably should have moved up by now. They're a dominant team, and regardless what we did, I've said, and I mean it, that they'd beat us much more often than not. I completely expected them to win that game, despite the hours and hours I put in, our scouts put in, etc. And if we played again, I'd still rank them /heavy/ favorites.

I still think they'll move up next season. But Nike-Joe had already pretty clearly stated his opinion in the post about them vs. Caprica, Caprica vs. the Vikings, etc. as justification for why they should have won. This is bordering on sour grapes.

There's an element of luck, but this isn't a dice roll or a single card draw either.

Oh, it isn't sour grapes, it is just plain old whining. I'm not saying we don't want to move up or win the title We DO!! No sour grapes. The grapes look delicious.

I'm just whining. Whine, whine whine.

But my original post here is that, when you look at our 3 season history, there is some rotten luck there. Form of whining? Guilty as charged.

I already said, or tried to say, that it is entirely possible, even highly probable, that NH's excellent game planning is what enabled them to be in a position to win. Just like my game planning, player recruiting, managing player builds, etc. put us in a position to win. Otherwise NH would have stomped us and it wouldn't have been a close game. Again, I'm just whining about our 3 year string of rotten luck.

Originally posted by Nike-Joe
Oh, it isn't sour grapes, it is just plain old whining. I'm not saying we don't want to move up or win the title We DO!! No sour grapes. The grapes look delicious.

I'm just whining. Whine, whine whine.

But my original post here is that, when you look at our 3 season history, there is some rotten luck there. Form of whining? Guilty as charged.

I already said, or tried to say, that it is entirely possible, even highly probable, that NH's excellent game planning is what enabled them to be in a position to win. Just like my game planning, player recruiting, managing player builds, etc. put us in a position to win. Otherwise NH would have stomped us and it wouldn't have been a close game. Again, I'm just whining about our 3 year string of rotten luck.

Fair enough, and true enough. You have had some /rotten/ luck.

You have a /great/ team, and have since day 1. There is no question about it, and I mean every word every time I talk your team up. I also have no illusions that we would win more than 10, maybe 20% of head to head games. You also would probably be more competitive in the division up than I expect to be and you deserve to be there. I expect you will be there next season, and I expect we'll lose another couple games against you before we're ready to move up.

But I'm damned proud of the hours and hours jkdog put in, Byron put in, gsobie put in, Booster put in watching dots run around a screen, analyzing pbps for matchups, etc., and I'm also damned proud of the trophy that effort produced.

I appreciate the acknowledgement that the game planning had something to do with it. I also truly do sympathize with some of the rough luck you've had. The three posts so far about how you've always dominated these teams, and framing it as a matter of mostly luck just bothered me in a way that losing the game wouldn't have come close to.

You made your opinions quite clear back in the congratulations thread. Everyone has been suitably surprised. Everyone knows your history. You pointed out how much you beat Caprica by, then compared that to the Vikings and us. There's a point at which continuing to whine about it gets old, and yeah, your opponents probably aren't going to appreciate it. If you're going to counsel other people not to take it so seriously, get your venting post done and leave it at that and get ready to move up next season.

Anyway, GG Nike-Joe, I'm sorry it didn't work out for you. I look forward to a rematch when you move up next season.

Fair enough. I'll shut up now.

In three reguar seasons Rapid City is 45-3.

In three Playoff seasons Rapid City is 3-3.

Of the 3 teams that have moved on from our conference we only lost 1 regular season game, anf that was to Wala Wala who has since promoted twice.

I feel your pain, and would like to join you in whining.