I'm confused what is the rational for having low strength. Don't you want a rQB to have all kind of strength anyhow? What else are you spending the SP on. Did I log in to the english premier football game instead? Even they need more than 30 strength I would bet money on it. I never saw a QB with 50 throwing or 50 strength or whatever you said who could throw well. I mean in prep maybe. But I don't think these magic rQB bonuses you speak of exist. You gotta be agile to be good with quick passes and short passes. You don't gotta run fast though. Look at Tom Brady. He might have 50 speed but you can take it to the bank his agility is like 90 or something. QB gotta have like footwork and quick releases if they want to be good at that kind of quick passing game. Agility
Forum > FAQ's, Player Guides and Newbie Help > QB build
Bash E. Bull
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Originally posted by Theo Wizzago
So, 1st the caveat. Dots are level 42. Opponent is CPU. But what you should pay attention to is the recognition of the open receiver and the quality of the throw;
https://glb.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3109599&pbp_id=20320
Hits the TE in stride. On target and on time. Throwing skill is in the very low 30's. having seen these kinds of throws from both RQB's and passing QB's I can tell you that's a pretty dang decent throw. Our passing QB has 4 times as much throwing skill and close to the same strength and much better vision. So I've seen so many RQB throws like that that I simply believe Bort has to have something... something that 'helps' a RQB make short and medium throws pretty dang good. I wouldn't want to throw 50 passes with one... but I can easily see 3 or 4, up to 20 or so... and I think you'd be happy with the results.
Now here's where I would lean on the better OC's in the game... what I can't say is if anyone has tried that in WL level. So, maybe there things don't work the same... or maybe the dot quality is so high that QB's pretty much die anyways up there (I've heard rumors)... but I've seen it work plenty at the top levels just below WL and it works pretty dang good in Casual if the OC knows their stuff.
This is not a good passer:
https://glb.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3102470&pbp_id=146607
look how long it takes him to throw a one yard pass, lol. you can't win like that
https://glb.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3102470&pbp_id=146051
simple FIVE YARD PASS over the middle is way behind the TE. Not even remotely good at throwing
Here is an example of an rQB who can actually throw:
https://glb.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3109481&pbp_id=101064
You'll notice that the pass arrives to the TE quicker 11 yards downfield than it did for the other guy to go 1 yard. Also the pass hits the player in stride rather than being behind the receiver. You'll also note that this QB has multitudes more than 30 strength and 30 throwing.
So I would say, IMO, you can't throw a pass any better really 11 yards over the middle to a receiver who has a step or two on the coverage. That is something a good dual-threat QB should be easily capable of (again, one who has way more than 30 throwing and 30 strength) but when guys are tightly covered and the QB needs to 'throw someone open' that is where the excessive amounts of throwing and/or vision of a passing specialist can make a big difference. To hit wide open guys all day doesn't take maxed out throwing; however it certainly takes more than 30.
I'm just not sure what you are looking at, Whizzy. The QB you are talking about is not a good passer at all, and is not a good runner at all. His passer rating was 42 in University and his team was demoted. You are looking at the wrong QB. If you look at the QB you posted those replays for, his passing is very poor, his arm strength is weak, and on top of that he isn't a powerful runner in the least. Even in University, 30 throwing and 30 strength = a pathetic non-QB trying to play the position. Imagine how bad 30 strength or throwing will be in Pro? There are no words for that amount of fail.
https://glb.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3102470&pbp_id=146626
https://glb.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3102551&pbp_id=848912
https://glb.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3102546&pbp_id=801407 (trying to throw a short hook lol)
https://glb.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3102524&pbp_id=606247
As you can see, that isn't nearly enough throwing attribute even for University
So, 1st the caveat. Dots are level 42. Opponent is CPU. But what you should pay attention to is the recognition of the open receiver and the quality of the throw;
https://glb.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3109599&pbp_id=20320
Hits the TE in stride. On target and on time. Throwing skill is in the very low 30's. having seen these kinds of throws from both RQB's and passing QB's I can tell you that's a pretty dang decent throw. Our passing QB has 4 times as much throwing skill and close to the same strength and much better vision. So I've seen so many RQB throws like that that I simply believe Bort has to have something... something that 'helps' a RQB make short and medium throws pretty dang good. I wouldn't want to throw 50 passes with one... but I can easily see 3 or 4, up to 20 or so... and I think you'd be happy with the results.
Now here's where I would lean on the better OC's in the game... what I can't say is if anyone has tried that in WL level. So, maybe there things don't work the same... or maybe the dot quality is so high that QB's pretty much die anyways up there (I've heard rumors)... but I've seen it work plenty at the top levels just below WL and it works pretty dang good in Casual if the OC knows their stuff.
This is not a good passer:
https://glb.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3102470&pbp_id=146607
look how long it takes him to throw a one yard pass, lol. you can't win like that
https://glb.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3102470&pbp_id=146051
simple FIVE YARD PASS over the middle is way behind the TE. Not even remotely good at throwing
Here is an example of an rQB who can actually throw:
https://glb.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3109481&pbp_id=101064
You'll notice that the pass arrives to the TE quicker 11 yards downfield than it did for the other guy to go 1 yard. Also the pass hits the player in stride rather than being behind the receiver. You'll also note that this QB has multitudes more than 30 strength and 30 throwing.
So I would say, IMO, you can't throw a pass any better really 11 yards over the middle to a receiver who has a step or two on the coverage. That is something a good dual-threat QB should be easily capable of (again, one who has way more than 30 throwing and 30 strength) but when guys are tightly covered and the QB needs to 'throw someone open' that is where the excessive amounts of throwing and/or vision of a passing specialist can make a big difference. To hit wide open guys all day doesn't take maxed out throwing; however it certainly takes more than 30.
I'm just not sure what you are looking at, Whizzy. The QB you are talking about is not a good passer at all, and is not a good runner at all. His passer rating was 42 in University and his team was demoted. You are looking at the wrong QB. If you look at the QB you posted those replays for, his passing is very poor, his arm strength is weak, and on top of that he isn't a powerful runner in the least. Even in University, 30 throwing and 30 strength = a pathetic non-QB trying to play the position. Imagine how bad 30 strength or throwing will be in Pro? There are no words for that amount of fail.
https://glb.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3102470&pbp_id=146626
https://glb.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3102551&pbp_id=848912
https://glb.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3102546&pbp_id=801407 (trying to throw a short hook lol)
https://glb.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3102524&pbp_id=606247
As you can see, that isn't nearly enough throwing attribute even for University
Kenshinzen
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you post your lolrushing QB to convice us that actually can throw the ball? There is no dual threat in GLB, end of story. 
Bash E. Bull
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You can't read can you? Those links are to plays that have a QB with 30 throwing (or so I'm told) except in the one instance. You really need to think before you post
Originally posted by Kenshinzen
you post your lolrushing QB to convice us that actually can throw the ball? There is no dual threat in GLB, end of story.
You will see, grasshopper. You will see.
you post your lolrushing QB to convice us that actually can throw the ball? There is no dual threat in GLB, end of story.
You will see, grasshopper. You will see.
I'll just drop this here and leave.
RQB #1. (throwing 28.54)
Season --- G --- Comp --- Att --- Pct --- Yds --- TD's --- INT
---93--------16------25--------41-----61----180.5-----2---------0
---94--------16------44--------77----57.1---406-------5---------0
RQB #2. (throwing 31.84)
Season --- G --- Comp --- Att --- Pct --- Yds --- TD's --- INT
---92--------16------59------109----54.1---362.5----3----------0
---93--------16------56-------72-----77.8----705-----14--------0
---94--------16------22-------36-----61.1----62.5----0----------2
Totals
Season --- G --- Comp --- Att --- Pct --- Yds --- TD's --- INT
----X--------80------206-----335----61.4--1716.5---21-------2
As I said, you CAN get quality production with RQB's throwing the ball... just be smart about how and when. And I know dual threat works because I've seen it work... but, so far, only in Casual where there are defensive limitations that allow them to play better there. And I fully believe Bort has something... either through design or by adding a 'buffer', such as he does for the passing game at lower levels, that helps RQB's with their passing. When comparing a RQB's throwing skill vs a passign QB's skill, there is NO WAY that an RQB should be able to throw as well as they do. None. The numbers just don't add up in my mind. And I've been doing this for a long time as well as watching a lifetime of replays and scouting and all that jazz. If I didn't SEE what I have seen, then I wouldn't say what I'm saying. And, yes, I believe a Dual Threat QB is possible. The fact that nobody has really figured it out yet doesn't make it not possible. Just not done. Yet.
RQB #1. (throwing 28.54)
Season --- G --- Comp --- Att --- Pct --- Yds --- TD's --- INT
---93--------16------25--------41-----61----180.5-----2---------0
---94--------16------44--------77----57.1---406-------5---------0
RQB #2. (throwing 31.84)
Season --- G --- Comp --- Att --- Pct --- Yds --- TD's --- INT
---92--------16------59------109----54.1---362.5----3----------0
---93--------16------56-------72-----77.8----705-----14--------0
---94--------16------22-------36-----61.1----62.5----0----------2
Totals
Season --- G --- Comp --- Att --- Pct --- Yds --- TD's --- INT
----X--------80------206-----335----61.4--1716.5---21-------2
As I said, you CAN get quality production with RQB's throwing the ball... just be smart about how and when. And I know dual threat works because I've seen it work... but, so far, only in Casual where there are defensive limitations that allow them to play better there. And I fully believe Bort has something... either through design or by adding a 'buffer', such as he does for the passing game at lower levels, that helps RQB's with their passing. When comparing a RQB's throwing skill vs a passign QB's skill, there is NO WAY that an RQB should be able to throw as well as they do. None. The numbers just don't add up in my mind. And I've been doing this for a long time as well as watching a lifetime of replays and scouting and all that jazz. If I didn't SEE what I have seen, then I wouldn't say what I'm saying. And, yes, I believe a Dual Threat QB is possible. The fact that nobody has really figured it out yet doesn't make it not possible. Just not done. Yet.
Originally posted by Theo Wizzago
I'll just drop this here and leave.
RQB #1. (throwing 28.54)
Season --- G --- Comp --- Att --- Pct --- Yds --- TD's --- INT
---93--------16------25--------41-----61----180.5-----2---------0
---94--------16------44--------77----57.1---406-------5---------0
RQB #2. (throwing 31.84)
Season --- G --- Comp --- Att --- Pct --- Yds --- TD's --- INT
---92--------16------59------109----54.1---362.5----3----------0
---93--------16------56-------72-----77.8----705-----14--------0
---94--------16------22-------36-----61.1----62.5----0----------2
Totals
Season --- G --- Comp --- Att --- Pct --- Yds --- TD's --- INT
----X--------80------206-----335----61.4--1716.5---21-------2
As I said, you CAN get quality production with RQB's throwing the ball... just be smart about how and when. And I know dual threat works because I've seen it work... but, so far, only in Casual where there are defensive limitations that allow them to play better there. And I fully believe Bort has something... either through design or by adding a 'buffer', such as he does for the passing game at lower levels, that helps RQB's with their passing. When comparing a RQB's throwing skill vs a passign QB's skill, there is NO WAY that an RQB should be able to throw as well as they do. None. The numbers just don't add up in my mind. And I've been doing this for a long time as well as watching a lifetime of replays and scouting and all that jazz. If I didn't SEE what I have seen, then I wouldn't say what I'm saying. And, yes, I believe a Dual Threat QB is possible. The fact that nobody has really figured it out yet doesn't make it not possible. Just not done. Yet.
a dual threat will work in WL, but not both in the same game
pass with your rushing QB a few times a season to keep teams guessing what they will be in any particular game, but doing both in the same game hasn't happened effectively that I have seen, but I may have missed it
doing so in any other league is fine because every league has bad/empty/CPU/farm teams w/zero cares teams in them
I'll just drop this here and leave.
RQB #1. (throwing 28.54)
Season --- G --- Comp --- Att --- Pct --- Yds --- TD's --- INT
---93--------16------25--------41-----61----180.5-----2---------0
---94--------16------44--------77----57.1---406-------5---------0
RQB #2. (throwing 31.84)
Season --- G --- Comp --- Att --- Pct --- Yds --- TD's --- INT
---92--------16------59------109----54.1---362.5----3----------0
---93--------16------56-------72-----77.8----705-----14--------0
---94--------16------22-------36-----61.1----62.5----0----------2
Totals
Season --- G --- Comp --- Att --- Pct --- Yds --- TD's --- INT
----X--------80------206-----335----61.4--1716.5---21-------2
As I said, you CAN get quality production with RQB's throwing the ball... just be smart about how and when. And I know dual threat works because I've seen it work... but, so far, only in Casual where there are defensive limitations that allow them to play better there. And I fully believe Bort has something... either through design or by adding a 'buffer', such as he does for the passing game at lower levels, that helps RQB's with their passing. When comparing a RQB's throwing skill vs a passign QB's skill, there is NO WAY that an RQB should be able to throw as well as they do. None. The numbers just don't add up in my mind. And I've been doing this for a long time as well as watching a lifetime of replays and scouting and all that jazz. If I didn't SEE what I have seen, then I wouldn't say what I'm saying. And, yes, I believe a Dual Threat QB is possible. The fact that nobody has really figured it out yet doesn't make it not possible. Just not done. Yet.
a dual threat will work in WL, but not both in the same game
pass with your rushing QB a few times a season to keep teams guessing what they will be in any particular game, but doing both in the same game hasn't happened effectively that I have seen, but I may have missed it
doing so in any other league is fine because every league has bad/empty/CPU/farm teams w/zero cares teams in them
Kenshinzen
online
online
Originally posted by Bash E. 
Bull
You can't read can you? Those links are to plays that have a QB with 30 throwing (or so I'm told) except in the one instance. You really need to think before you post
Do you think had time to read the wall of text you posted? I noticed only when you said about an example of an rQB that can actually throw…
BullYou can't read can you? Those links are to plays that have a QB with 30 throwing (or so I'm told) except in the one instance. You really need to think before you post
Do you think had time to read the wall of text you posted? I noticed only when you said about an example of an rQB that can actually throw…
Bash E. Bull
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Originally posted by Theo Wizzago
I'll just drop this here and leave.
RQB #1. (throwing 28.54)
Season --- G --- Comp --- Att --- Pct --- Yds --- TD's --- INT
---93--------16------25--------41-----61----180.5-----2---------0
---94--------16------44--------77----57.1---406-------5---------0
RQB #2. (throwing 31.84)
Season --- G --- Comp --- Att --- Pct --- Yds --- TD's --- INT
---92--------16------59------109----54.1---362.5----3----------0
---93--------16------56-------72-----77.8----705-----14--------0
---94--------16------22-------36-----61.1----62.5----0----------2
Totals
Season --- G --- Comp --- Att --- Pct --- Yds --- TD's --- INT
----X--------80------206-----335----61.4--1716.5---21-------2
As I said, you CAN get quality production with RQB's throwing the ball... just be smart about how and when. And I know dual threat works because I've seen it work... but, so far, only in Casual where there are defensive limitations that allow them to play better there. And I fully believe Bort has something... either through design or by adding a 'buffer', such as he does for the passing game at lower levels, that helps RQB's with their passing. When comparing a RQB's throwing skill vs a passign QB's skill, there is NO WAY that an RQB should be able to throw as well as they do. None. The numbers just don't add up in my mind. And I've been doing this for a long time as well as watching a lifetime of replays and scouting and all that jazz. If I didn't SEE what I have seen, then I wouldn't say what I'm saying. And, yes, I believe a Dual Threat QB is possible. The fact that nobody has really figured it out yet doesn't make it not possible. Just not done. Yet.
That kind of sums up my earlier point. That is a QB rating of 42 in University last season- and its only even that good because of the cpu team. His only good stats ever have come in the CPU league and even those stats weren't very good.
Here, he has negative yards when he played us. Our dual threat QB did fairly well in that same game.
https://glb.warriorgeneral.com/game/game.pl?game_id=3102470
Tif da Cat 2022 (throwing and strength: way more than 30)
s____QB Rat___Compl.__Att.___%____Yds.___Yds/Gm__Y/A__TD__INT__Sack__Rushes__Rush Yds._/gm___/att___TD
92........100..........197.......292.....67.5.....1,558.5....97.4.........5.3.....17......0........1..........121..........694.5........43.4.....5.7.......7
93.......130.2........250.......331.....75.5.....2,698.5....168.7.......8.2.....31......0........1..........134..........697...........43.6.....5.2.......11
94.......121.1........273.......382.....71.5.....2,494.......155.9.......6.5.....37......0........2..........152..........745.5........46.6.....4.9........9
MVP winner University Elite season 94
Since it is tough to go by stats in the early levels, I will use her previous version's first 2 seasons in NAPL, which I'm including because there were no CPU or teams with CPU players in NAPL those seasons:
Tif da Cat 2020
s____QB Rat___Compl.__Att.___%____Yds.___Yds/Gm__Y/A__TD__INT__Sack__Rushes__Rush Yds._/gm___/att___TD
86........131..........215........331......65.......3,299......206.2.......10.......91 ....5........4..........258........3,169.5......198.1....12.3.....88
87.......111.2........239........391......61.1.....3,136.....196............8.......44.....12.......4..........319........3,212.........200.8....10.1....57
She won MVP all 3 seasons she was in NAPL, including these two. We won Gold in season 87. These were the game-winning plays in the conference and league championship games that season.
https://glb.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3063451&pbp_id=1153275
https://glb.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3063563&pbp_id=1202209
That juke and pump fake won us gold
In World League, it was... a different story
As far as I'm aware, Tif has been the most successful dual-threat QB in Pro that there has been. In World League, as far as I'm aware, no QB has yet been consistently good at both passing and running, though some have been successful doing both in limited amount, using the 'guessing game' as reddog said. Hopefully, this time around we will finally have a consistently successful 'dual threat' QB when we get back to WL. We'll see. I continue to feel its more about the level of the entire team than just one player, even if it is the QB.
I'll just drop this here and leave.
RQB #1. (throwing 28.54)
Season --- G --- Comp --- Att --- Pct --- Yds --- TD's --- INT
---93--------16------25--------41-----61----180.5-----2---------0
---94--------16------44--------77----57.1---406-------5---------0
RQB #2. (throwing 31.84)
Season --- G --- Comp --- Att --- Pct --- Yds --- TD's --- INT
---92--------16------59------109----54.1---362.5----3----------0
---93--------16------56-------72-----77.8----705-----14--------0
---94--------16------22-------36-----61.1----62.5----0----------2
Totals
Season --- G --- Comp --- Att --- Pct --- Yds --- TD's --- INT
----X--------80------206-----335----61.4--1716.5---21-------2
As I said, you CAN get quality production with RQB's throwing the ball... just be smart about how and when. And I know dual threat works because I've seen it work... but, so far, only in Casual where there are defensive limitations that allow them to play better there. And I fully believe Bort has something... either through design or by adding a 'buffer', such as he does for the passing game at lower levels, that helps RQB's with their passing. When comparing a RQB's throwing skill vs a passign QB's skill, there is NO WAY that an RQB should be able to throw as well as they do. None. The numbers just don't add up in my mind. And I've been doing this for a long time as well as watching a lifetime of replays and scouting and all that jazz. If I didn't SEE what I have seen, then I wouldn't say what I'm saying. And, yes, I believe a Dual Threat QB is possible. The fact that nobody has really figured it out yet doesn't make it not possible. Just not done. Yet.
That kind of sums up my earlier point. That is a QB rating of 42 in University last season- and its only even that good because of the cpu team. His only good stats ever have come in the CPU league and even those stats weren't very good.
Here, he has negative yards when he played us. Our dual threat QB did fairly well in that same game.
https://glb.warriorgeneral.com/game/game.pl?game_id=3102470
Tif da Cat 2022 (throwing and strength: way more than 30)
s____QB Rat___Compl.__Att.___%____Yds.___Yds/Gm__Y/A__TD__INT__Sack__Rushes__Rush Yds._/gm___/att___TD
92........100..........197.......292.....67.5.....1,558.5....97.4.........5.3.....17......0........1..........121..........694.5........43.4.....5.7.......7
93.......130.2........250.......331.....75.5.....2,698.5....168.7.......8.2.....31......0........1..........134..........697...........43.6.....5.2.......11
94.......121.1........273.......382.....71.5.....2,494.......155.9.......6.5.....37......0........2..........152..........745.5........46.6.....4.9........9
MVP winner University Elite season 94
Since it is tough to go by stats in the early levels, I will use her previous version's first 2 seasons in NAPL, which I'm including because there were no CPU or teams with CPU players in NAPL those seasons:
Tif da Cat 2020
s____QB Rat___Compl.__Att.___%____Yds.___Yds/Gm__Y/A__TD__INT__Sack__Rushes__Rush Yds._/gm___/att___TD
86........131..........215........331......65.......3,299......206.2.......10.......91 ....5........4..........258........3,169.5......198.1....12.3.....88
87.......111.2........239........391......61.1.....3,136.....196............8.......44.....12.......4..........319........3,212.........200.8....10.1....57
She won MVP all 3 seasons she was in NAPL, including these two. We won Gold in season 87. These were the game-winning plays in the conference and league championship games that season.
https://glb.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3063451&pbp_id=1153275
https://glb.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3063563&pbp_id=1202209
That juke and pump fake won us gold
In World League, it was... a different story
As far as I'm aware, Tif has been the most successful dual-threat QB in Pro that there has been. In World League, as far as I'm aware, no QB has yet been consistently good at both passing and running, though some have been successful doing both in limited amount, using the 'guessing game' as reddog said. Hopefully, this time around we will finally have a consistently successful 'dual threat' QB when we get back to WL. We'll see. I continue to feel its more about the level of the entire team than just one player, even if it is the QB.
Edited by Bash E. Bull on Oct 13, 2022 16:02:15
Bash E. Bull
offline
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Originally posted by Kenshinzen
Do you think had time to read the wall of text you posted?:
TLDR version:
My brother made a 'dual threat' QB that literally passed the ball as well as any 'pass only' QB you've ever made, and the proof is in the pudding.
Do you think had time to read the wall of text you posted?
:TLDR version:
My brother made a 'dual threat' QB that literally passed the ball as well as any 'pass only' QB you've ever made, and the proof is in the pudding.
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