Warrior General Games

I don't like it because to me it is simply a 15 or none option. Putting a couple in there is going to have little effect because each play you have such a small chance of it firing. If I were to use it, I would want all 15 in there for the full 75% chance of it firing. If it is only going to be a couple points invested, spend them elsewhere.

No way to justify putting 15 in there with so many other known effective VA's.

Originally posted by Sly
I had one player with 15 clutch who won 7 MVP trophies - 1 in WL, 3 more in Pro, and 3 more in Elite. Jus' sayin'.


But here's the thing. Post all the plays that show where clutch helped you win those rather than all the other SA's and VA's and the quality of the build and the quality of the coordinator and I'll buy that clutch works awesome.

Given the focused nature of the VA I think it would be easy enough to see how well the dot performs in those circumstances as opposed to others and see if there is a difference.

My dots went with Clutch for a bit.

They seemed to do worse.

Originally posted by Theo Wizzago
But here's the thing. Post all the plays that show where clutch helped you win those rather than all the other SA's and VA's and the quality of the build and the quality of the coordinator and I'll buy that clutch works awesome.

Let's break down what you just said.

Given: my dot on my own team which I coordinate the O, D & ST, built by me with 2 pieces of AEQ, in a conventional build that many would probably try to say was mediocre given only 2 AEQ, with very standard choices of SA's and VAs except the notable 15 in Clutch, won 7 MVP trophies in highly competitive leagues over his career: 3 in Elite coming up, 3 in USA Pro, and 1 in his only season in World League (a season in which he was in decline which by the end of the season made his build that much more mediocre).

Therefore, according to you, the following possibilities exist:

1) I am a far superior dot builder than other WL/Pro/Elite teams have
2) The unusual choice to have only 2AEQ is far superior than a 3AEQ or 4AEQ build
3) I am a far superior coordinator than other WL/Pro/Elite coordinators
4) The other typical choices of SAs and VAs worked better on my dot that all the other teams who likely had the same choices, because Bort is my love slave and cheats for me
Or 5) It's gotta be the Clutch!

Now I tell you what, find any 2 successful and respected GLBrs besides me who will support my belief that #1, 2 or 3 might be the answer and we'll investigate those in more depth. You'll just have to believe me that it's not #4 as I dumped Bort many seasons ago and now he just hates on my team in his mad jealousy. So going through all the possibilities you listed, the only one that remains is #5: IT'S GOTTA BE THE CLUTCH!

Originally posted by Sly
Originally posted by Theo Wizzago

But here's the thing. Post all the plays that show where clutch helped you win those rather than all the other SA's and VA's and the quality of the build and the quality of the coordinator and I'll buy that clutch works awesome.

Let's break down what you just said.

Given: my dot on my own team which I coordinate the O, D & ST, built by me with 2 pieces of AEQ, in a conventional build that many would probably try to say was mediocre given only 2 AEQ, with very standard choices of SA's and VAs except the notable 15 in Clutch, won 7 MVP trophies in highly competitive leagues over his career: 3 in Elite coming up, 3 in USA Pro, and 1 in his only season in World League (a season in which he was in decline which by the end of the season made his build that much more mediocre).

Therefore, according to you, the following possibilities exist:

1) I am a far superior dot builder than other WL/Pro/Elite teams have
2) The unusual choice to have only 2AEQ is far superior than a 3AEQ or 4AEQ build
3) I am a far superior coordinator than other WL/Pro/Elite coordinators
4) The other typical choices of SAs and VAs worked better on my dot that all the other teams who likely had the same choices, because Bort is my love slave and cheats for me
Or 5) It's gotta be the Clutch!

Now I tell you what, find any 2 successful and respected GLBrs besides me who will support my belief that #1, 2 or 3 might be the answer and we'll investigate those in more depth. You'll just have to believe me that it's not #4 as I dumped Bort many seasons ago and now he just hates on my team in his mad jealousy. So going through all the possibilities you listed, the only one that remains is #5: IT'S GOTTA BE THE CLUTCH!


if those are the 5 choices, then I would choose 5

but bad teams with a lot of kickoff returns puts returners higher in the MVP rankings too

Clutch on a returner is fine since every punt return is on 4th down, but for non returners it is much harder to tell if it is doing something

few points also wouldn't be bad on a QB i guess. probably pass on a lot of 3rd and 4th downs, 4 points means 20% of the time you're getting something, and it's when it counts the most. 4 points in an attribute VA that works on every down - yeah, i mean, even knowing /nothing/ about what clutch is besides "it's like a christmas tree when it fires", i'd say it's comparable just because of how small a bonus that is even though it's spread out over so many more plays. your team's gameplan and the game situation matters, too. your QB doesn't need those 4 points in an attribute VA when you're blowing everyone out. your QB needs to be able to make plays when it needs to. all that being said i wouldn't go more than 5 points in it.

If you're basing the effectiveness of Clutch on how many MVP trophies you got then, yeah... I think ya need some BETTER proof. You do know that the MVP system is a LOTTERY and not awarded to the best player always, right? Also, if MVP's determine the effectiveness of Clutch then I must be a god at building dots since I get MVP gear all the time and I don't use Clutch so my dots must be the greatest ever... which not only do I know this isn't true, but JD will back me up as well on this (I tend to build a bit different than JD does).

Dude, I'm not wantin to get in a pissin war over this but I'm also not alone in my thoughts about clutch. And while me and JD don't agree on many things, I guarantee you he's not a fan of the VA for the same reasons I am. There's simply better VA's to get before you get Clutch for most positions. There are some where, if you have VP's left over, sure... Clutch is ok. But there's no possible way to look at any play and see where Clutch worked and so, how well it works... how often it fires... and how useful it really is, remains debatable. I won't tell you NOT to use it... you seem to like it and enjoy using it and feel it does work... I'd say, for you, stick with it then. But the OP asked and several of us simply disagree with you about it. That's all really. Peace bro.

Theo,

I'm sure you could argue forever. The fact is that you made a statement, which could be characterized as a promise, that if I could show the MVP awards were not resulting from some specific other possible causes you originally listed that you would concede "that clutch works awesome." I provided a level of proof adequate that most people here could accept with reasonable certainty that the trophies weren't due to the specific other possible causes you originally included in your promise. You then proceeded to fail to honor your commitment, instead coming up with new objections that the MVP system is too random. Honestly, I never expected you to keep your promise I was pretty sure that you would keep your original opinions even if Bort himself came in here and said that you are wrong. I've tried to be very direct here to avoid confusion but I am confident you will still in your own mind find some way to rationalize that you never made such a statement, that even if you did I did not address your points with adequate proof, and even if I did you were not under any obligation to admit "that clutch works awesome" because you never actually made any commitment to do that, and even if you did the answer you gave was just as good, better even, and I am a real heel to have tried to characterize you as I did because you were actually the victim here anyway.

Thanks for being you!

Originally posted by Sly
Theo,

I'm sure you could argue forever. The fact is that you made a statement, which could be characterized as a promise, that if I could show the MVP awards were not resulting from some specific other possible causes you originally listed that you would concede "that clutch works awesome." I provided a level of proof adequate that most people here could accept with reasonable certainty that the trophies weren't due to the specific other possible causes you originally included in your promise. You then proceeded to fail to honor your commitment, instead coming up with new objections that the MVP system is too random. Honestly, I never expected you to keep your promise I was pretty sure that you would keep your original opinions even if Bort himself came in here and said that you are wrong. I've tried to be very direct here to avoid confusion but I am confident you will still in your own mind find some way to rationalize that you never made such a statement, that even if you did I did not address your points with adequate proof, and even if I did you were not under any obligation to admit "that clutch works awesome" because you never actually made any commitment to do that, and even if you did the answer you gave was just as good, better even, and I am a real heel to have tried to characterize you as I did because you were actually the victim here anyway.

Thanks for being you!

I did pose the question in that manner. Sorry. I actually think that ALL VA's are valid... I seriously doubt Bort made a 'fake' VA that doesn't do what it says... however, when you read several of them they require 'triggers' in order to even be able to come into action (like Red Zone Freak or Overtime Killer) and even then many are limited in exactly when they work or where they work and a few in how they work. When I first saw Clutch, I thought it was the most awesome VA of them all. I mean, what's not to love? Bonuses to just about every single skill when 'the game is on the line'. What could be better? I championed it for a long time until others came along and laughed at me for being stupid enough to have it. I've built dots with it... I've built the very same dots without it. There's simply no PURE way to see it fire and say, "There! See that play? That was Clutch working." Again, if someone wants to use it, great...awesome... fine. If you believe you're getting MUCH better results using it, awesome! As far as it goes for me, I simply see other VA's I would rather have MORE than Clutch and will probably only use it when I've exhausted all other VA's I want first... then I might choose it on the hopes it does something I'll never see with my own eyes. A little faith, eh?