Warrior General Games

That proves nothing.

I have a team in Reg Minor and the top 3 or 4 teams didn't make it very far in the tourney because none of them cared enough about the tournament to game plan for it.

Guess folks can agree to disagree. I learned a long time ago not to get too into discussions like this since it doesn't matter. Catch and Bort will do whatever they want regardless of what we think.

It just seems stupid to me that they stick with such horrible execution throughout the minors and then just toss the promotion system out the window in favor of anarchy when it comes to Reg Pro.

Originally posted by Dub J
That proves nothing.

I have a team in Reg Minor and the top 3 or 4 teams didn't make it very far in the tourney because none of them cared enough about the tournament to game plan for it.





so beating the teams that you think are definitely better tells you nothing.... but a little tag at the end of a league name that says elite does?


oh and I can tell you for sure that at least one of those competitive teams didnt gameplan either

Originally posted by Dub J
It just seems stupid to me that they stick with such horrible execution throughout the minors and then just toss the promotion system out the window in favor of anarchy when it comes to Reg Pro.



I hear ya. On the first page or two of the announcement about the National Pro contraction I mentioned the need to change Regional Pro too, but the powers that be ignored it. They always fail to look at the future impact of a change and only see the immediate impact.

Originally posted by gebster
so beating the teams that you think are definitely better tells you nothing.... but a little tag at the end of a league name that says elite does?


oh and I can tell you for sure that at least one of those competitive teams didnt gameplan either

Yes, winning games in the playoffs in elite does tell me something. I've had teams in elite and comp and elite is a step up in overall competition. I'm going by teams that have won games to promote to elite and then excel there. You are telling me that we should ignore that in favor of going on people's word that a team is good enough to be competitive in Pro.

I have always been strongly against teams not paying their dues and jumping leagues. Everyone should be held to the same standard.

Originally posted by Dub J
Yes, winning games in the playoffs in elite does tell me something. I've had teams in elite and comp and elite is a step up in overall competition. I'm going by teams that have won games to promote to elite and then excel there. You are telling me that we should ignore that in favor of going on people's word that a team is good enough to be competitive in Pro.

I have always been strongly against teams not paying their dues and jumping leagues. Everyone should be held to the same standard.

Again, if a 9th place Nat Pro team demoted to Elite instead of Comp, I would agree. However, how is barely missing the playoffs in Nat Pro = not paying dues. The team he linked went 6-10 the previous season in National Pro...not Regional Pro.

Because there needs to be a standard that is kept to ensure teams aren't circumventing the promotional system. To say team A didn't fare well in Pro therefore team B will perform better in Pro is a ridiculous statement.

Originally posted by Dub J
Because there needs to be a standard that is kept to ensure teams aren't circumventing the promotional system. To say team A didn't fare well in Pro therefore team B will perform better in Pro is a ridiculous statement.



Let me ask you this. Imagine you made Nat Pro and finished 9th. Do you think it is fair that you can not get back into National Pro for two seasons?

Also, there is a standard way of promoting, as I understand it. It is laid out here:

http://goallineblitz.com/game/announcement.pl?id=606

In a nutshell, playoff Elite teams get first dibs, then the top teams from Comp. Missing the playoffs in Elite is not exactly earning it.

With regards to circumventing the promotion system, how is it fair for a Semi Pro Elite team to bypass the bottom tiers of the Regional Pro system and go straight to Reg Pro Elite, even tho they can't even get their level 72 upgrades when they start the season?

-------------------

So there are two discussions here....one about what should be, and one about what is.

Since the current system of demotions and promotions is not ideal or even particularly fair, saying that only Elite teams can earn their way into Nat Pro is not any more fair than the promotion system into Regional Pro Elite. We agree that they need to re-work the system so that the best (and most deserving) teams are in Regional Pro Elite, and thus a 9th place Regional Pro Elite team truly is more deserving than a top tier Competitive team.

However, with the system that is in place, I think the tiering process is probably as fair as they can get. The Comp team still has to earn it, and there are far fewer teams per Comp league that will go.

Pro teams demote to comp?

Originally posted by Dub J
Pro teams demote to comp?



Yes, as I have said twice already in this thread. In fact, the team that you guys are arguing about went 6-10 in Nat Pro in Season 32. Thus, it isn't like that team bypassed Regional Pro. They got dumped back into Comp from Nat Pro.

That makes no sense. Just like minors with 3 leagues having an elite and 2 comps. Had they had 1 elite, 1 comp, and 1 non-comp non-boosters would not have made it to elite. Obviously an admin or a panel of users needs to be appointed to overlook the promotion/demotion system on a seasonal basis. The system we have now just doesn't work.

Originally posted by Dub J
That makes no sense. Just like minors with 3 leagues having an elite and 2 comps. Had they had 1 elite, 1 comp, and 1 non-comp non-boosters would not have made it to elite. Obviously an admin or a panel of users needs to be appointed to overlook the promotion/demotion system on a seasonal basis. The system we have now just doesn't work.



I don't disagree. The system in place has flaws. I do understand Bort wanting it to be automated since any sort of manual process would be subject to bias (or accusations of bias).

Honestly, the best solution would be to have a double shuffle. Step 1 would handle initial promotions/demotions between tiers. Step 2 would happen towards the end of the offseason and would sort teams into Elite/Competitive/Regular based on factors such as number of non-CPU dots, age of non-CPU dots, effective level of non-CPU dots, previous performance, and any other factors I may have overlooked.

Would the script be complicated? Sure. There would be a ton of moving parts and the process would have to be meticulously detailed before any coding could begin. It most likely wouldn't be perfect, either. It would, however, be more likely to make Elite leagues more elite, Competitive league more competitive, and Regular leagues more regular.

Originally posted by Plankton


With regards to circumventing the promotion system, how is it fair for a Semi Pro Elite team to bypass the bottom tiers of the Regional Pro system and go straight to Reg Pro Elite, even tho they can't even get their level 72 upgrades when they start the season?





Not only can they not get lvl72 upgrades at start of season, it's not until like after game 6ish.
I've been there, won silver in semi-pro elite, went to regPro elite.
We made playoffs and won in 1st round, got destroyed in second round against lvl79's. Went on to NatPro, got manhandled and missed playoffs by 1 win, demoted back to regPro competitive . But there was a couple of CPU teams in elite so I contacted support and they moved us back up to regPro elite, and we went on to win Gold. Gutted team and walked away champs lol.

What I'm getting at is, had they allowed us to remain in NattyPro it would have been better. Cause, by then we had finished our builds and upgraded a few positions, fixed AI's and reworked VA's. made the needed adjustments.

Bah, I have lost my train of thought. Disregard this post

Promotion/Demotion needs to be top down.

WL demotes 16
PL promotes 16 demotes 64 (this is the major issue imo) - Where should they go? There's only one Elite league to send them to! Send the top 16 down to Elite of those demoting, but that leaves 48 teams to demote to competitive. It is too many demoting.

Reg Elite Promotes 16 to PL demotes 16 to Competitive (16 from PL leaves 16 more to fill from Competitive and Semi Pro)
Reg Competitive (5) Promotes 40 (8 each) to PL and Promotes 10 to Elite (2 each)
Semi Pro Elite Promotes 8 to PL 4 to Elite
Semi Pro Competitive Promotes 2 to Elite

The problem is that there isn't a proper feeder system in place from Reg.

Most of all there aren't enough dots making it to Semi Pro.