Warrior General Games

Originally posted by hatchman
Yello1 you really need to stop lettings things like someone not agreeing with you. To get your panties in a bunch. Seriously I can see where you are coming from to a extent. But you are a person that continually wants the game to make everything so easy that you do not have to do any work to have success. Had someone else made this suggestion then maybe I could see it as something other than you just wanting GLB to give you some easy way to win without having to put in the work that successful team owners do. And in all reality that wouldn't be fair to all the people that work to get better. And to field successful teams instead of what you do and field 9 mediocre teams.

Eh, in yello's defense, isn't a good idea still a good idea, regardless of who suggests it or why?

I get what you're telling yello, and I agree with a lot of it. The last thing he needs is a shortcut to information that he still won't understand properly anyway. He does need to spend more time actually watching the sim, and he desperately needs to focus on getting good at just running 1 team before he tries to branch out into running more. This Suggestion, if implemented, would have the likely effect of ensuring that he watches even less of the sim than he seems to now, which would further retard his slowly-growing understanding of the game.

But that doesn't make his suggestion a bad idea for the rest of us. Anything that gets info to my eyeballs faster and easier is a plus in my book -- because I already know what that info means and what to do with it, and so do a lot of other coordinators in this game who are desperate for something -- anything -- that will cut down on their time-load.

My only concern is that his Suggestion would slow down the loading time of the Scout screen. If that happens, then it really wouldn't be a true benefit after all.

Originally posted by Novus
Eh, in yello's defense, isn't a good idea still a good idea, regardless of who suggests it or why?

I get what you're telling yello, and I agree with a lot of it. The last thing he needs is a shortcut to information that he still won't understand properly anyway. He does need to spend more time actually watching the sim, and he desperately needs to focus on getting good at just running 1 team before he tries to branch out into running more. This Suggestion, if implemented, would have the likely effect of ensuring that he watches even less of the sim than he seems to now, which would further retard his slowly-growing understanding of the game.

But that doesn't make his suggestion a bad idea for the rest of us. Anything that gets info to my eyeballs faster and easier is a plus in my book -- because I already know what that info means and what to do with it, and so do a lot of other coordinators in this game who are desperate for something -- anything -- that will cut down on their time-load.

My only concern is that his Suggestion would slow down the loading time of the Scout screen. If that happens, then it really wouldn't be a true benefit after all.

What you say is true to a extent. And maybe I am wrong in my thinking. And in no way do I want to make coordinating more time consuming. But on the flip side I do not want to see things get so easy that it rewards people that will not put the work in to be successful. I have nothing against yello1 personally I do wish that he would use his time on the site better. All the time he wastes wanting GLB to change to make the game so he can actually win instead of putting time into working on learning the game.

Originally posted by hatchman
What you say is true to a extent. And maybe I am wrong in my thinking. And in no way do I want to make coordinating more time consuming. But on the flip side I do not want to see things get so easy that it rewards people that will not put the work in to be successful. I have nothing against yello1 personally I do wish that he would use his time on the site better. All the time he wastes wanting GLB to change to make the game so he can actually win instead of putting time into working on learning the game.

/brofist

Originally posted by yello1
should be in the game

But that said....which script is that?

rocketsauce scouting tool

it links replays from games. and in the replay description (before the link) it shows the PBP text and type of D formation that was used against it. If the replay is from a game in which you have Defense Coord. Rights, it shows name of DPC play (or the basic GLB play if one of them where used)

It takes a bit of work to use it, not quite as simple as the point and click in the OP. But it does have it's benefits (you can designate which offensive players where on plays and what formations,down/distance and it filters it for you)

Originally posted by yello1


Thanks for the advice though. I just do not think it outweighs the benefits of making the game more user friendly.

Just keep in mind that not ALL things done to make life "user friendly" are good things. In all things we do there are always effects from the actions. It's something the American Congress men/women seems to have forgotten completely lately. You simply cannot remove a stone from the pile and always expect it to stand as before... or stand stronger. I have posted SO many times that I am for things in GLB that reduce the amount of time you HAVE to spend here. The time you spend doing things here should be a choice... not a result of complicated conditions that CAUSE you to spend long times here. BUT... ONLY... ONLY if it doesn't take away from the game experience. And that MUST be for everyone... not just the inconvenienced few. What you suggest works wonders for people that own multiple teams and do all their own leg work. But maybe NOT so much for those of us who own NO teams and are coaches and builders and scouts... or own ONE team and do all things. As I posted, I am for a few things to HELP make scouting easier... but NOT at the expense of the TRUE nature and results of REAL scouting. Take that away just for a few people and you ruin it for many more and many more to come (I hope more come here to play).
I don't say this lightly because I HAVE been a scout before... for REAL... not just for this simple game. What I say comes from experience and not just from playing GLB. What I learned... both doing scouting for real AND doing scouting for GLB teams have similar aspects even though they are not the exact same thing. And that's why I say there's much to scouting that NEEDS to be kept tedious and difficult... so those that do it LEARN from it. Having it done for you by the game simply creates lazy scouts that do nothing more than read the numbers given to them and write up a "report" on that.

Give a man some fish and you'll feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and he'll feed himself for life.

I'm with you on making better fishing poles... but NOT with you on having the fish simply appear in the creel. That's all.

So part of GLB has a script that offers more scouting and the rest have to use the Bort Scout. Seems equal. All the tools in the world are useless if your dots and your AIs suck which makes a better scouting tool a mute point.

I buy my fish at a store

Originally posted by 7steeladonis
So part of GLB has a script that offers more scouting and the rest have to use the Bort Scout. Seems equal. All the tools in the world are useless if your dots and your AIs suck which makes a better scouting tool a mute point.

I buy my fish at a store

Welcome to season 2.

Greasemonkey and user-created scripts became a part of GLB in the early phases of the game. Bort had a choice to either embrace scripts or ban them...he embraced them. In fact, several enhancements were put off because scripts existed that did what people were asking for.

That said, the Rockitsauce scouting tool is nice, but even with it you have to do a bit of legwork. You can drill down deeper into trends and tendencies but we're talking a couple hours work, at best, to get good results.

^ yep

Originally posted by AirMcMVP

You can drill down deeper into trends and tendencies but we're talking a couple hours work, at best, to get good results.

Yes... but I do defend Yellow a bit on this. A LOT of that time is spent compiling numbers. I can see where having that part of scouting being done for you as the game itself is numbers based and therefore we're only talking some simple work to make those universally available to the scouts. But the scouting part that SHOULD take time... watching plays, taking notes, compiling tendencies on downs/distances/time-on-clock/scores... those should NOT be done for people. Either you want to put in the effort to win or you're lazy. We have casual leagues for people that wish not to have to put in so much time and effort. (and this is NOT a bash of people that play casual... just a truth that some people have neither the time nor inclination of spending THAT much time to play an on-line football sim.) Again I say there are many places in this game that "wasted time" could be better done away with... while keeping the integrity of the game intact. I'm always for simple things that save time... but I'd be against having all my work done for me by the game. When it reaches that level of play, then I'm outa here for something more stimulating.

I may not understand what he is asking for, but I thought that all these links already existed under the individual plays?

Originally posted by SciFi not Syfy
I may not understand what he is asking for, but I thought that all these links already existed under the individual plays?

No and Not really.

Not Really
If you want to see the plays where your team (or the other whatever) is forcing a loss, you would have to go through the play list for all of the plays in that scouting result to look for the results that show a loss. Tedious to say the least. If Forced Fumbles or Hurries were included that data would be similarly semi-available.

No
If you want to see the plays where the First Downs were converted, you would have to LOOK at every single play in the scouting result to see where a first down is made. The only place to find this data even remotely available in summarized form is the play by play where you would have to do a search text highlight all for first down text and then look at the play before those which were not the first first down in the possession.

Alot of added tedium and time sink for small gain, all of which could the player base could be spared by simply having the program link to the data it is already compiling.

Originally posted by Theo Wizzago
...or you're lazy. .... the integrity of the game...

I appreciate your thoughtful analysis and the sincerity of your opinions.

But I think you are really swinging and missing when you think the terms "lazy" and "integrity" should be applied to a computer game.

No values are associated in a computer game being made needlessly time consuming. Its just an annoyance.

Its not like providing this data would some how make a player a better coach or give him a cheat to tell him what to do. Its not a chess game telling the player the best move available. Its simply pre-sorting data for the player then to look at without first wasting hours of time gathering that data (which means most won't even bother and thus will eventually quit the game in frustration, killing the game). Thats not telling the player what to do. At all. Even remotely. Its not good or bad evil or honorable.

Its just making data accessible.

You know Yello1 in all honesty you contradict yourself a ton on this game. on one hand you are in here asking for the game to be made simpler and less time consuming. and in another suggestion you are asking to make the game alot more in depth and what would actually make even more work for everyone. I do not really care about this suggestion one way or the other. because I know that even if it was implemented it wouldn't make any of your teams any better. and in reality it wouldn't do anything but trim maybe a couple minutes off of scouting for the good coordinators on the game anyway.

Originally posted by hatchman
You know Yello1 in all honesty you contradict yourself a ton on this game. on one hand you are in here asking for the game to be made simpler and less time consuming. and in another suggestion you are asking to make the game alot more in depth and what would actually make even more work for everyone. I do not really care about this suggestion one way or the other. because I know that even if it was implemented it wouldn't make any of your teams any better. and in reality it wouldn't do anything but trim maybe a couple minutes off of scouting for the good coordinators on the game anyway.

Simpler and less time consuming are not the same thing and therefore the ideas are not contradictory in anyway.

This idea does not make the game simpler. If anything it makes some information more readily available meaning its more likely to be used meaning if anything it might wind up making the game more complex for the users opting to utilize the feature who otherwise would not have bothered to look into it.

But it positively makes some research less time consuming. Way more than a couple of minutes - if this data was something you wanted to take a look at.

I think thats a good thing.

Originally posted by yello1
Simpler and less time consuming are not the same thing and therefore the ideas are not contradictory in anyway.

This idea does not make the game simpler. If anything it makes some information more readily available meaning its more likely to be used meaning if anything it might wind up making the game more complex for the users opting to utilize the feature who otherwise would not have bothered to look into it.

But it positively makes some research less time consuming. Way more than a couple of minutes - if this data was something you wanted to take a look at.

I think thats a good thing.

actually you can try to spin it however you want to but this suggestion is to make the scouting simpler. you can call it less time consuming and try to make yourself look like you are making a valid argument. but that isn't the case I do hate to tell you that. but I am done trying to debate different points on this suggestion. I will give it a -1 and leave it at that.