Warrior General Games

Originally posted by yello1
Thinking?

Have you peaked under those helmets lately?

The Linemen do not seem like great thinkers to me.

Wow ...are you and Ken1 related. You two are so much a like. So equally shallow minded

Your poor attempt at trolling is really a sad.

Originally posted by bedgood42
In this game a well biult DTs should probably be able to avg 2-3 tackles for loss just on beating his O lineman 3 out of the 40 run plays in the entire game. Also 1 sack every other game would probably be about right.for a well built DT. 1 sack per season is pretty ridiculous.

I think you're right that DTs (at least on a 4 man line) aren't making enough plays, although I don't think your targets are realistic.

On a 4 man line, 4 players will typically share time at DT, and if each got 2-3 TfLs per game that would be 8-12 TfLs per game from DTs alone. I can't find real life stats on it, but I'm sure that's way too high. They should be getting some tackles though, and occasional TfL, if something else is added to allow a few more longer rushes, to keep the rushing averages realistic.

I'd agree with you that DTs seem to get too few sacks, although I think your target is again too high.

If people get too concerned with getting more numbers for DTs, that means, even in terms of pure fairness, that an average GLB RB can't do as well as an average real life RB.

Again, I agree that DTs are getting to do too little right now. I'm just saying that I think your targets are too high, and that team stats' being similar to real life team stats should take the highest priority: Anything that negatively impacts the running game right now needs to be balanced by a positive impact (ideally the net effect being to increase the standard deviation, with more TfL and very short runs but also more long runs).

Again, if you aren't in the pro or the WL, if it's not working it's your build. Stop building for the future and build for now, you will find stuff works better. Of course you wont win any other time.

Originally posted by Ken1
I think you're right that DTs (at least on a 4 man line) aren't making enough plays, although I don't think your targets are realistic.

On a 4 man line, 4 players will typically share time at DT, and if each got 2-3 TfLs per game that would be 8-12 TfLs per game from DTs alone. I can't find real life stats on it, but I'm sure that's way too high. They should be getting some tackles though, and occasional TfL, if something else is added to allow a few more longer rushes, to keep the rushing averages realistic.

I'd agree with you that DTs seem to get too few sacks, although I think your target is again too high.

If people get too concerned with getting more numbers for DTs, that means, even in terms of pure fairness, that an average GLB RB can't do as well as an average real life RB.

Again, I agree that DTs are getting to do too little right now. I'm just saying that I think your targets are too high, and that team stats' being similar to real life team stats should take the highest priority: Anything that negatively impacts the running game right now needs to be balanced by a positive impact (ideally the net effect being to increase the standard deviation, with more TfL and very short runs but also more long runs).

Your right off the top of my head I was just thinking of a 4 man line not the back ups. So cut it in half 4-6 TFL for the entire D line would be acceptable. Right now We are probably getting 2 TFL and zero sacks on avg in PRO (did not look up stats just based on what I have seen)

I think that Guards should pull better, I honestly think this would fix the outside run game. If that were fixed it would create the occasional long run you are looking for. Primary because DC would have to chose where to leave a weakness.

Originally posted by bedgood42
Your right off the top of my head I was just thinking of a 4 man line not the back ups. So cut it in half 4-6 TFL for the entire D line would be acceptable. Right now We are probably getting 2 TFL and zero sacks on avg in PRO (did not look up stats just based on what I have seen)

I think that Guards should pull better, I honestly think this would fix the outside run game. If that were fixed it would create the occasional long run you are looking for. Primary because DC would have to chose where to leave a weakness.

Your proposed numbers in this post are reasonable enough. I'd go toward the low end of them, that when everything is average, the DL should get about 4 TfL per game (I have no rl stats to tell me whether that's too high or too low; if someone finds some, all the better). DTs should also get a couple non-TfL tackles where the offense gains 1-2 yards. That would vary quite a bit based on everything (builds, play calling, play design, etc.).

I agree that it could be balanced by making Gs pull better. Pulling Lineman is very small in effect compared to other VAs. I'd double its effect, and even for Gs without it make it easier to pull.

Originally posted by Ken1
Your proposed numbers in this post are reasonable enough. I'd go toward the low end of them, that when everything is average, the DL should get about 4 TfL per game (I have no rl stats to tell me whether that's too high or too low; if someone finds some, all the better). DTs should also get a couple non-TfL tackles where the offense gains 1-2 yards. That would vary quite a bit based on everything (builds, play calling, play design, etc.).

I agree that it could be balanced by making Gs pull better. Pulling Lineman is very small in effect compared to other VAs. I'd double its effect, and even for Gs without it make it easier to pull.

The VA is not to blame for the G issue it is the SIM's fault.

As far as the D line and DTs specifically, all I know is something needs to happen cause right now DTs are worthless.

Originally posted by bedgood42
As far as the D line and DTs specifically, all I know is something needs to happen cause right now DTs are worthless.

This is just one of many cases where the realism nuts negatively impacted GLB. What fun is it to build a position that simply can't get stats? GLB should have ignored those tools and not tried to get the sim to pump out "realistic" numbers but rather should have been set up so that elite dots could rack up stats against crappy dots.

When elite dots play elite dots the numbers should normalize, so in spots like WL you would still see somewhat "realistic" numbers but in most leagues where there is a huge variance in talent of dots and coordination dots would be able to rack up big numbers even at the DT position.

I'd much rather see inflated numbers across the board than see the sim trying to force "realism" in stats by making entire positions relatively useless.

Originally posted by merenoise
I'd much rather see inflated numbers across the board than see the sim trying to force "realism" in stats by making entire positions relatively useless.

DTs aren't useless in real life, so it has to be possible to keep realism in GLB without making them useless. If, in fact, they got no stats in real life, then it would be the case they should get no stats in GLB. But they do make some tackles in real life, so there has to be a way to let them have a similar number of tackles in GLB while keeping overall stats realistic. Bedgood came up with an idea to balance it both ways:

Originally posted by bedgood42
Your right off the top of my head I was just thinking of a 4 man line not the back ups. So cut it in half 4-6 TFL for the entire D line would be acceptable. Right now We are probably getting 2 TFL and zero sacks on avg in PRO (did not look up stats just based on what I have seen)

I think that Guards should pull better, I honestly think this would fix the outside run game. If that were fixed it would create the occasional long run you are looking for. Primary because DC would have to chose where to leave a weakness.

Originally posted by Ken1
Originally posted by merenoise

I'd much rather see inflated numbers across the board than see the sim trying to force "realism" in stats by making entire positions relatively useless.

Stuff



Please don't quote me or refer to my posts at all. I was told by admins that you cried about me pointing out that you are a liar and a guy who admits that he would bench players for dumb reasons and they told me to have nothing to do with you. That street goes two ways. Pull your shtick with someone else.

EDIT: Admins - would have sent that in a PM but he has me blocked.

Originally posted by merenoise
Please don't quote me or refer to my posts at all. I was told by admins that you cried about me pointing out that you are a liar and a guy who admits that he would bench players for dumb reasons and they told me to have nothing to do with you. That street goes two ways. Pull your shtick with someone else.

EDIT: Admins - would have sent that in a PM but he has me blocked.

You referred indirectly to my post. I was told by the Admins, whom I contacted due to your relentless harassment of me (that they found to be a valid complaint) that you were allowed to disagree publicly with my ideas as long as you kept it to my ideas and not at all make it personal...and your first post ITT did stick to ideas. So did my response. I didn't refer to you forum-stalking or lying about what I said. I didn't refer to you personally at all, in fact. I did quote your post, to rebut it. That was all.

I had clarified with the admins that if you are allowed to show your disagreements with me that I can rebut your disagreements.

However, if you will agree not to refer to my posts I will agree not to refer to yours.

The post quoted in this post was, however, IMO inappropriate because, regardless of my blocking your PMs, you could easily have said what you said in a non-derogatory manner when posting it.

Stop the bickering else I'll lock this thread and suspend you both.

My main problem with the DT vs OG/C interaction is that DTs arent producing stats in general. It's the fact that the best DTs in the game dont produce against some of the worst. (same level) Even CPU OL handles good DL dots.

Take one for the team merenoise!!