Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Ken1
+1, except if set to QB spy it should be automatically seen; no need for a Vision check in that instance.

I was originally going to suggest it be automatic. I'm not sure why I changed my mind.

+1 to this.

I would want my secondary guys to have an option of 'Stick With Your Guy'

Originally posted by Skoll Wolfrun
I would want my secondary guys to have an option of 'Stick With Your Guy'

it might go into play with what his other personal tactics are set to, like balanced, run, or pass focused. If he is pass focused, he is more likely to stick with his guy than if he is run focused.

Originally posted by Anarcho
I would be in favor of vision checks to see if the QB is rushing. Make all defenders undergo vision checks whenever the QB leaves the pocket at all, regardless of whether or not the QB has tucked the ball. Defenders should not "know" that the ball is tucked.

This way defenders can fail the vision check in one of two ways. They can either fail to see the QB rushing and continue to maintain coverage or they can have a false positive where they leave coverage to chase the QB, when the QB has not tucked the ball yet (potentially leading to an uncovered receiver). It would be difficult to exploit (because it would be dependent on the defender's build rather than a sim feature) and it would add value to dual threat and scrambling QBs.

Then to balance it out even more, make the vision check a lot more difficult when in man coverage, easier when in zone, and even easier when set to QB spy.

+1

I like this as well.

Originally posted by Anarcho
I would be in favor of vision checks to see if the QB is rushing. Make all defenders undergo vision checks whenever the QB leaves the pocket at all, regardless of whether or not the QB has tucked the ball. Defenders should not "know" that the ball is tucked.

This way defenders can fail the vision check in one of two ways. They can either fail to see the QB rushing and continue to maintain coverage or they can have a false positive where they leave coverage to chase the QB, when the QB has not tucked the ball yet (potentially leading to an uncovered receiver). It would be difficult to exploit (because it would be dependent on the defender's build rather than a sim feature) and it would add value to dual threat and scrambling QBs.

Then to balance it out even more, make the vision check a lot more difficult when in man coverage, easier when in zone, and even easier when set to QB spy.

+ 1 dammit

Make your own thread about it so we can get it to vote asap if possible

Originally posted by alindyl
I think this is pretty much a NGTH based on a Q&A asking about implementing this. bolding the relevant parts:


Bort
February 11, 2011
Question: Does SYM work on a QB who is running a called pass play, but has pulled the ball down to run? If so, does it depend on if they are outside the pocket as to which ability they get (break tackle v. Spin)? Follow ups on those points: Since it seems that receivers don't turn around and start blocking until the QB has crossed the LOS, I was hoping for a little help in breaking the onslaught of tackles from when the QB tucks the ball and every D player has instant recognition that the QB is running. Also, since all of the defenders have left the receivers open down field, can the scrambling QB untuck the ball and throw it? (Example from 'determined not a bug') http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1547393&pbp_id=4122961&flash=1 The bug was closed because it was determined that receivers could block, they either 'all' failed a vision check, or (more likely) they cannot commit to block until the QB has crossed the LOS, unless they were already commited to block prior to the pass. Conclusion: Maybe code it so that blockers can react at the same time as defenders, give the QB a chance to beat those defenders with SYM, or let the QB throw it to all those wide open dots.

Answer: Yes and no to the first two questions. Defenders and blockers both have to pass vision checks to start blocking or following the QB. It may be that the vision checks for the blockers tend to be harder for most blockers (who often have less vision that defenders) to pass vs the high vision defenses out there. The QB cannot currently exit the "run" mode once he's tucked the ball. He can scramble around until he tucks the ball, but I think if he could go back to throw mode, we'd probably see that become pretty overpowered as receivers suddenly were open due to the defenders breaking off. We'd probably have to add more logic and tactics options for likelihood of following the QB when he scrambles, etc.

Since they seem to be trying to come to a final "sim being finished" state and the mentioned complexities involved i don't think they are going to do this. It's possible he's changed his mind in the past year but it's pretty late in the game to try to develop and implement allowing QB's to tuck the ball and then change their minds and throw it.

So -1 just because i don't think it will happen

How dare you use logic

Yep, this would be overpowered all to hell.

Originally posted by Anarcho
I

Then to balance it out even more, make the vision check a lot more difficult when in man coverage, easier when in zone, and even easier when set to QB spy.

I think you've got it.
+1

+1

it's a double edged sword. The QB tucking the ball makes both the offense and defense switch to run mode. I currently think there should be a "semi tuck" style, which allows for faster movement, but allows for the QB tuck and run hard, to throw on the run, or drop back to full throwing stance and throw.

You could add tactics for what to do when QB breaks contain or something, and have a vision check for QB tucking the ball etc

The defense needs to be fixed to not attack a QB with the ball tucked until he has crossed the line of scrimmage.

EDIT: I mean the whole defense. Obviously the DL and blitzers would still go after the QB.

How about a vision check that is harder to pass the further you are from the QB?

Originally posted by DiMo28
The defense needs to be fixed to not attack a QB with the ball tucked until he has crossed the line of scrimmage.

EDIT: I mean the whole defense. Obviously the DL and blitzers would still go after the QB.

what about the offense? Should they instantly go into run block mode and start blocking downfield before the QB is past the line of scrimmage (which is actually a penalty)

Originally posted by Chysil
it's a double edged sword. The QB tucking the ball makes both the offense and defense switch to run mode. I currently think there should be a "semi tuck" style, which allows for faster movement, but allows for the QB tuck and run hard, to throw on the run, or drop back to full throwing stance and throw.

You could add tactics for what to do when QB breaks contain or something, and have a vision check for QB tucking the ball etc

This is not a bad idea.

The problem I was trying to address is if a QB sees 7-8 defenders going for him and he hasnt crossed the LOS, there are an aweful lot of downfield targets he should throw to. I understand the the fact that if this was done then a lot of Defenses would get exploited, but then shouldn't they read run when the QB actually crosses the LOS?

Originally posted by Mr_Victor
Originally posted by Chysil

it's a double edged sword. The QB tucking the ball makes both the offense and defense switch to run mode. I currently think there should be a "semi tuck" style, which allows for faster movement, but allows for the QB tuck and run hard, to throw on the run, or drop back to full throwing stance and throw.

You could add tactics for what to do when QB breaks contain or something, and have a vision check for QB tucking the ball etc

This is not a bad idea.

The problem I was trying to address is if a QB sees 7-8 defenders going for him and he hasnt crossed the LOS, there are an aweful lot of downfield targets he should throw to. I understand the the fact that if this was done then a lot of Defenses would get exploited, but then shouldn't they read run when the QB actually crosses the LOS?

well I'd also like to see a bit more physics in the game. If a QB is rolling out to the right (if he's right handed), he's looking for a receiver on the right 1/3 or 1/4 of the field. He's not going to stop and throw it cross body, cross field like you see a lot in GLB