Warrior General Games

I have twice now had teams promoted straight from a playoff game in Regional Pro competitive to National Pro. Thats cool, yay, lots more fun.

BUT

Teams in Regional Pro Competitive are not built to play in the bigs. You let that 50 level guy hang on your roster. You need one or three or ten to fill in roster spots. And its fine at that level, fine enough to playoffs if not a title. But its no dice in the bigs. As a result both of my double promoted teams had to drastically retool to be able to compete at that level. The first team had to drop to Chemistry in the 30s and the second is in the 20s and not done yet.

The result is a horrible season or demotion. Not retooling would be definite demotion (you can't play with so so or even good 50 levels in the bigs). In which case the owner and the players are just being set up for an arse frakking by being "promoted below the zone". Not much of a reward, and likely to lead to less player retention than you have today.

My first double promo team went through a miserable 2-14 season and lost nearly half the team to free agency this season because of it meaning we are back in the chemistry dumps today though only in the high 40s. The second team is probably going to have a tough road to avoid demotion (though at least they arent in USAPro like the first was) and is unlikely to keep all the fine dots I was able to grab in the last 48 hours because of it meaning yet more chemistry woes next season, etc etc etc.

The answer is to give teams that are double promoted some sort of Chemistry discount. Either double their chemistry recovery, or do not count the release of players under level 67 to chemistry hits, or give them an outright chemistry holiday like a new team gets for a few days. THAT would make double promotion actually fun and improve your chances of keeping the players on those teams as GLB customers.

It might also help with the ridiculous team turnover rate in the National Pros.

-1 no. First off, moving from regional pro to national pro is not a "double promotion". Both leagues are uncapped so you could have made changes in S24.

I assume you are referring to http://goallineblitz.com/game/team.pl?season=24&team_id=352 this 2-14 team. In S24 it was in regional pro comp, then it went to USAPL for S25 after making the playoffs in S24.

You make your own choices in this game. Everyone is in the same boat. If you don't have the players to succeed, you get new ones or deal with bad seasons.

There should be no discount because you didn't plan for the future sufficiently. Btw your chemistry will rise rapidly over the offseason since it is so low. Get the players you need for the future and play your best.

+1.

seems fair

Originally posted by alindyl
-1 no. First off, moving from regional pro to national pro is not a "double promotion". Both leagues are uncapped so you could have made changes in S24.

I assume you are referring to http://goallineblitz.com/game/team.pl?season=24&team_id=352 this 2-14 team. In S24 it was in regional pro comp, then it went to USAPL for S25 after making the playoffs in S24.

You make your own choices in this game. Everyone is in the same boat. If you don't have the players to succeed, you get new ones or deal with bad seasons.

There should be no discount because you didn't plan for the future sufficiently. Btw your chemistry will rise rapidly over the offseason since it is so low. Get the players you need for the future and play your best.

This big time.

-1 to OP

Mixed feelings on this one.

A team can easily replace 10 players in an offseason and start the next season with just about the same chemistry that they ended the previous season. Thus, if you are dipping into the 30 Chemistry level, you are talking about replacing most of your team. If you have to replace most of your team when you are promoted, then the promotion system is seriously flawed.

Honestly, I think the issue is with how bad Regional Pro and National Pro are now that they are promoting teams that can not compete in National Pro, yet are good enough to make the playoffs in National Pro "competitive". I think a better fix is to address the vast disparity in team quality within National Pro, and the non Elite Regional Pro leagues so that teams promote when they should.

IMO, the real solution has been proposed and voted on before and is being ignored (collapse Nat Pro to 2 - 4 leagues), and until it is taken seriously, bandaids are a waste of time.

Originally posted by alindyl
First off, moving from regional pro to national pro is not a "double promotion".
Amen to that.

Originally posted by alindyl
You make your own choices in this game. Everyone is in the same boat. If you don't have the players to succeed, you get new ones or deal with bad seasons.
Amen to that too. If OP's team had moved to Oceania instead of USA Pro, this wouldn't have been an issue.

Originally posted by alindyl
-1 no. First off, moving from regional pro to national pro is not a "double promotion". Both leagues are uncapped so you could have made changes in S24.

I assume you are referring to http://goallineblitz.com/game/team.pl?season=24&team_id=352 this 2-14 team. In S24 it was in regional pro comp, then it went to USAPL for S25 after making the playoffs in S24.

You make your own choices in this game. Everyone is in the same boat. If you don't have the players to succeed, you get new ones or deal with bad seasons.

There should be no discount because you didn't plan for the future sufficiently. Btw your chemistry will rise rapidly over the offseason since it is so low. Get the players you need for the future and play your best.

I think you miss a key point. Up until a season or two ago (or so, not sure when this started) the only teams going to National Pro were supposed to be teams that had done well in Regional Pro Elite.

16 teams in the top of Elite, 16 teams demoting out of National Pro. Thats how I think it was supposed to be working. I certainly had a club both get into Elite after a good year in Reg Pro Comp, and also not then be promoted to National Pro, so something changed here to cause this situation.

But it seems that turnover in National Pro is over 32 teams such that the barrel is being scraped lower and lower down Reg Pro to fill the National Pro ranks.

Thats a surprise to teams building to compete at Competitive Pro.

But regardless, right wrong morally superior 1337 or weak, its a matter of player retention and good business to not make your customers suffer by dumping 50 levels into National Pro, it will make those players miserable. Unless you have some consideration to offset the impact.

My OP is such a consideration.

Originally posted by Plankton
A team can easily replace 10 players in an offseason and start the next season with just about the same chemistry that they ended the previous season. Thus, if you are dipping into the 30 Chemistry level, you are talking about replacing most of your team. If you have to replace most of your team when you are promoted, then the promotion system is seriously flawed.

Honestly, I think the issue is with how bad Regional Pro and National Pro are now that they are promoting teams that can not compete in National Pro, yet are good enough to make the playoffs in National Pro "competitive". I think a better fix is to address the vast disparity in team quality within National Pro, and the non Elite Regional Pro leagues so that teams promote when they should.

IMO, the real solution has been proposed and voted on before and is being ignored (collapse Nat Pro to 2 - 4 leagues), and until it is taken seriously, bandaids are a waste of time.

Yes the promotion system is an issue thats behind this. Really IMO its the entire concept of the game. Teams should not be demoting like they are at all. But thats another thread.

And so is the promotion system. This is a way to deal with what we have. I think its a good and easy fix, since there is already a mechanic both to avoid chemistry hits with some releases and to give holidays to chemistry hits at all. If something could be done in the future to fix the broader problems that does not mean that we should deny ourselves this "bandaid" in the mean time.

As to the reducing the size of national pro, I do not think so. Firstly because National Pro is really the meat of the game's draw for your paying customers. They may dream of WL but they are more likely to wind up in National Pro and most are happy with that. Cool league names etc. Reducing that opportunity means less satisfied customers. Thats bad for business. And if business is bad, we all lose our hobby.

Also I do not even know that National Pro needs to be reduced for quality reasons. I totally refilled my Word team and nearly half of my Grace club in two days with national pro capable guys. And I have guys who were sent offers banging on the door wanting in still but who I do not have room for at their slots yet.

If I can attract that many decent players that quickly, then there are more than enough players able to play in National Pro to fill the existing leagues. The problem is that the current system doesn't let them find homes, because teams over promoted try to play with existing too low level players perhaps in large part, or being hampered by chemistry even if they find those homes.

My idea would make getting them into the teams they should be in, the ones in Nat Pro, easier and then letting them compete better when they get there.

Originally posted by CDZYO

Amen to that too. If OP's team had moved to Oceania instead of USA Pro, this wouldn't have been an issue.


It was in Oceania actually, with my other team in the same conference. I thought that was a little screwed up. If we played each other the perception that I would or could throw the game to favor the contending team would be unavoidable (if I HAD a contending team).

So I asked to be moved if the Mods thought it a good idea. They did.

I did NOT ask for USA Pro though. OMFGosh what a slaughter house.

But as to your over all point, that its all my fault, this is a game. And we are talking about customer satisfaction - talking to the people who make the game and live off of its proceeds, aka the Business Owner.

A Business Owner that goes Judgmental on his customer base is soon to be closing up shop. The Soup Nazi aside, the customer is the one you are trying to please. Not tell him he is not good enough to enjoy your product. If your customers are all clowns, then you better frakking start selling clown suits.

-1 to OP