Have a 100 str / agility type LDE and I'll have SP's outside of SA's to spend. Thoughts on where Vision, TKL, Stamina should be at end build?
thanks
thanks
dviss1
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Originally posted by Lil Czar
68, 68, 55 imo
Not at end build, but basically you get to these caps.
68, 68, 55 imo
Not at end build, but basically you get to these caps.
direfire
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Originally posted by tautology
No.
Eh I just figure vision to 61 gets you getting of on the first snap something like 75%+ percent of the time. Tackling is hard to gauge because it really depends on your role in the defense. I think a RDE can get away with less the 61 and a LDE needs more. Stamina you probably need more then 50 but not much more maybe 55. Good teams have good depth to keep you fresh.
But you know much more then I since I only build players and you build teams
.
No.
Eh I just figure vision to 61 gets you getting of on the first snap something like 75%+ percent of the time. Tackling is hard to gauge because it really depends on your role in the defense. I think a RDE can get away with less the 61 and a LDE needs more. Stamina you probably need more then 50 but not much more maybe 55. Good teams have good depth to keep you fresh.
But you know much more then I since I only build players and you build teams
. Rage Kinard
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Originally posted by direfire
Eh I just figure vision to 61 gets you getting of on the first snap something like 75%+ percent of the time.
not even close. 70 doesn't get you off on the first tick 75% of the time unless you have JTS. 61 gets you off by the 3rd tick about 60-70% of the time.
Looking at first movement by one of my DTs with 69 vision for first 20 plays in his last game (no streaky)
4th
2nd
3rd
4th
3rd
2nd
2nd
2nd
3rd
2nd
4th
2nd
3rd
2nd
2nd
3rd
2nd
4th
4th
3rd
He didn't move on the first tick on any single play.
Eh I just figure vision to 61 gets you getting of on the first snap something like 75%+ percent of the time.
not even close. 70 doesn't get you off on the first tick 75% of the time unless you have JTS. 61 gets you off by the 3rd tick about 60-70% of the time.
Looking at first movement by one of my DTs with 69 vision for first 20 plays in his last game (no streaky)
4th
2nd
3rd
4th
3rd
2nd
2nd
2nd
3rd
2nd
4th
2nd
3rd
2nd
2nd
3rd
2nd
4th
4th
3rd
He didn't move on the first tick on any single play.
tautology
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Originally posted by direfire
Originally posted by tautology
No.
Eh I just figure vision to 61 gets you getting of on the first snap something like 75%+ percent of the time. Tackling is hard to gauge because it really depends on your role in the defense. I think a RDE can get away with less the 61 and a LDE needs more. Stamina you probably need more then 50 but not much more maybe 55. Good teams have good depth to keep you fresh.
But you know much more then I since I only build players and you build teams.
Some folks do well at RDE with 61 (or less) tackling...that is a viable compromise. But vision and stamina at those levels are a recipe for mediocrity.
Originally posted by tautology
No.
Eh I just figure vision to 61 gets you getting of on the first snap something like 75%+ percent of the time. Tackling is hard to gauge because it really depends on your role in the defense. I think a RDE can get away with less the 61 and a LDE needs more. Stamina you probably need more then 50 but not much more maybe 55. Good teams have good depth to keep you fresh.
But you know much more then I since I only build players and you build teams
. Some folks do well at RDE with 61 (or less) tackling...that is a viable compromise. But vision and stamina at those levels are a recipe for mediocrity.
risico
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50 stamina on any defensive dot is a recipe for disaster.
Also, higher vision is good for more than just snap jumps. A lot of times my DE will read the play and run to the other side of the field to make a pursuit tackle. It's good for stopping screens as well.
I think tackling can be sacrificed, especially if you get some make tackle EQ.
Also, higher vision is good for more than just snap jumps. A lot of times my DE will read the play and run to the other side of the field to make a pursuit tackle. It's good for stopping screens as well.
I think tackling can be sacrificed, especially if you get some make tackle EQ.
bigben71784
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So how much vision is recommended for D lineman without JTS? Is 75 enough for a NT?
tautology
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Originally posted by bigben71784
So how much vision is recommended for D lineman without JTS? Is 75 enough for a NT?
"Enough" depends on the rest of your build and what you are trying to do.
68 is "enough" in the sense that you can make the argument for getting equal or better performance from spending SPs elsewhere. I wouldn't go below 68 or so personally.
The next generation of DT/NTs will surely feature some much higher vision guys (80+)...it remains to be seen whether that will prove to be a worthwhile strategy.
I suspect it will be decent but far from earth-shaking.
So how much vision is recommended for D lineman without JTS? Is 75 enough for a NT?
"Enough" depends on the rest of your build and what you are trying to do.
68 is "enough" in the sense that you can make the argument for getting equal or better performance from spending SPs elsewhere. I wouldn't go below 68 or so personally.
The next generation of DT/NTs will surely feature some much higher vision guys (80+)...it remains to be seen whether that will prove to be a worthwhile strategy.
I suspect it will be decent but far from earth-shaking.
direfire
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Originally posted by timthorn
http://goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=4107841&page=4#37103731
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o_O...... ..... ......o_O..o_Oo_Oo_O..o_Oo_Oo_O.....o_Oo_Oo_O
o_O......o_O......o_O.. ......o_O...... ..o_O...... ...... .. ...... ......o_O
o_O......o_O......o_O.. ......o_O...... ..o_Oo_Oo_O.. .....o_Oo_O
o_O......o_O......o_O.. ......o_O...... ..o_O...... ...... .. ...o_O
o_Oo_O o_Oo_Oo_O .. ....o_O...... ..o_O...... ...... .. ...o_O
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Final Review
Rankings: Not too much of a shocker here.
Overall Snap Awareness Average: 2.2317 over 82 Plays
0 JTS / 74.79Vision
Overall Snap Awareness Average: 2.25 over 206 Plays
15 JTS / 70.83 Vision
Overall Snap Awareness Average: 2.27 over 157 Plays
15 JTS / 65 Vision
Overall Snap Awareness Average: 2.44 over 133 Plays
0 JTS / 66 vision
Overall Snap Awareness Average: 2.46 over 157 Plays
6 JTS / 69.97 Vision
Overall Snap Awareness Average: 2.69 over 218 Plays
0 JTS / 74.52 Vision
Overall Snap Awareness Average: 2.72 over 144 Plays
5 JTS / 55 Vision
Overall Snap Awareness Average: 2.72 over 147 Plays
0 JTS / 70.64 Vision
Overall Snap Awareness Average: 3.16 over 96 Plays
0 JTS / 55.09 Vision
Observations:
- The average Snap Awareness difference between 0 and 5 in JTS at around 55 Vision was 0.44.
- The average Snap Awareness difference between 6 and 15 in JTS at around 70 Vision was 0.19 ticks.
- The average Snap Awareness difference between 0 and 15 JTS at around 65 Vision was 0.17 ticks.
- The average Snap Awareness difference with 15 JTS between 66 and 70 Vision was 0.02 ticks.
- The average Snap Awareness between 70 and 74 Vision and 0 JTS was 2.71 ticks.
- The average Snap Awareness difference between 70-74 Vision and 0 JTS versus 70 Vision and 15 JTS was 0.46 ticks.
Implications:
It is up to you to figure out what this means for your builds. For my DT's, I am going to get their Vision around 60 and use between 5-10 in JTS. This will reduce the range of ticks and overall average for their snap awareness to make me comfortable.
Further Study
More work needs to be done with looking into broader Vision ranges and amount invested in JTS. In particular, more information on the following combinations would be useful:
- 0 JTS / 48 Vision
- 5 JTS / 48 VIsion
- 10 JTS / 48 Vision
- 15 JTS / 48 Vision
- 10 JTS / 55 Vision
- 15 JTS / 55 Vision
- 0 JTS / 60 Vision
- 5 JTS / 60 VIsion
- 10 JTS / 60 Vision
- 15 JTS / 60 Vision
- 5 JTS / 65 VIsion
- 10 JTS / 65 Vision
- 5 JTS / 70+ VIsion
- 10 JTS / 70+ Vision
If you have builds that meet these criteria, feel free to use this format and post their information below:
Overall Snap Awareness Average: X.XX over XXX Plays
Level: XX/XX
Player Value: XXX.XX
XX JTS / XX.XX Vision
Individual Games:
Snap Awareness: http://userscripts.org/scripts/show/54334
Average: http://www.easycalculation.com/statistics/mean-median-mode.php
http://userscripts.org/scripts/show/54334
- Warning about this script, again, but DISABLE any Replay Rewrite script that is active. Also, DISABLE Flash Replays.
http://goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=4107841&page=4#37103731
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o_O...... ..... ......o_O..o_Oo_Oo_O..o_Oo_Oo_O.....o_Oo_Oo_O
o_O......o_O......o_O.. ......o_O...... ..o_O...... ...... .. ...... ......o_O
o_O......o_O......o_O.. ......o_O...... ..o_Oo_Oo_O.. .....o_Oo_O
o_O......o_O......o_O.. ......o_O...... ..o_O...... ...... .. ...o_O
o_Oo_O o_Oo_Oo_O .. ....o_O...... ..o_O...... ...... .. ...o_O
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Final Review
Rankings: Not too much of a shocker here.
Overall Snap Awareness Average: 2.2317 over 82 Plays
0 JTS / 74.79Vision
Overall Snap Awareness Average: 2.25 over 206 Plays
15 JTS / 70.83 Vision
Overall Snap Awareness Average: 2.27 over 157 Plays
15 JTS / 65 Vision
Overall Snap Awareness Average: 2.44 over 133 Plays
0 JTS / 66 vision
Overall Snap Awareness Average: 2.46 over 157 Plays
6 JTS / 69.97 Vision
Overall Snap Awareness Average: 2.69 over 218 Plays
0 JTS / 74.52 Vision
Overall Snap Awareness Average: 2.72 over 144 Plays
5 JTS / 55 Vision
Overall Snap Awareness Average: 2.72 over 147 Plays
0 JTS / 70.64 Vision
Overall Snap Awareness Average: 3.16 over 96 Plays
0 JTS / 55.09 Vision
Observations:
- The average Snap Awareness difference between 0 and 5 in JTS at around 55 Vision was 0.44.
- The average Snap Awareness difference between 6 and 15 in JTS at around 70 Vision was 0.19 ticks.
- The average Snap Awareness difference between 0 and 15 JTS at around 65 Vision was 0.17 ticks.
- The average Snap Awareness difference with 15 JTS between 66 and 70 Vision was 0.02 ticks.
- The average Snap Awareness between 70 and 74 Vision and 0 JTS was 2.71 ticks.
- The average Snap Awareness difference between 70-74 Vision and 0 JTS versus 70 Vision and 15 JTS was 0.46 ticks.
Implications:
It is up to you to figure out what this means for your builds. For my DT's, I am going to get their Vision around 60 and use between 5-10 in JTS. This will reduce the range of ticks and overall average for their snap awareness to make me comfortable.
Further Study
More work needs to be done with looking into broader Vision ranges and amount invested in JTS. In particular, more information on the following combinations would be useful:
- 0 JTS / 48 Vision
- 5 JTS / 48 VIsion
- 10 JTS / 48 Vision
- 15 JTS / 48 Vision
- 10 JTS / 55 Vision
- 15 JTS / 55 Vision
- 0 JTS / 60 Vision
- 5 JTS / 60 VIsion
- 10 JTS / 60 Vision
- 15 JTS / 60 Vision
- 5 JTS / 65 VIsion
- 10 JTS / 65 Vision
- 5 JTS / 70+ VIsion
- 10 JTS / 70+ Vision
If you have builds that meet these criteria, feel free to use this format and post their information below:
Overall Snap Awareness Average: X.XX over XXX Plays
Level: XX/XX
Player Value: XXX.XX
XX JTS / XX.XX Vision
Individual Games:
Snap Awareness: http://userscripts.org/scripts/show/54334
Average: http://www.easycalculation.com/statistics/mean-median-mode.php
http://userscripts.org/scripts/show/54334
- Warning about this script, again, but DISABLE any Replay Rewrite script that is active. Also, DISABLE Flash Replays.
Rage Kinard
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Originally posted by MileHighShoes
D-linemen snap awareness has been nerfed since that study
significantly TBH
D-linemen snap awareness has been nerfed since that study
significantly TBH
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