Warrior General Games

I've made the thread in the Suggestions forum

http://goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=4157671

Please make a post there, nothing will be done if the thread isn't supported.

I guess I have a different philosophy-

I think all the teams of equal skill level should be grouped by their skill level, not shuffled around so that top teams can beat up on weak teams.

We do want a sim of REAL football don't we? Only way to get rid of 255-0 victories is to pile the good teams together in Silver #1 and the bad teams together in Silver #8. Make every game within reach of every team. Nobody wants to play a game they know they're gonna get hammered by 100+ points. At least give everyone a hope at victory EVERY game. That's how to keep EVERYONE interested, including losing teams.

Originally posted by JohnnyP
I guess I have a different philosophy-

I think all the teams of equal skill level should be grouped by their skill level, not shuffled around so that top teams can beat up on weak teams.

We do want a sim of REAL football don't we? Only way to get rid of 255-0 victories is to pile the good teams together in Silver #1 and the bad teams together in Silver #8. Make every game within reach of every team. Nobody wants to play a game they know they're gonna get hammered by 100+ points. At least give everyone a hope at victory EVERY game. That's how to keep EVERYONE interested, including losing teams.

then it should be tiered from the top down (see AA->AAA->Pro->WL), or from side to side (Normal->Competitive->Elite).

This bastardized system we currently have where one conference in each league is much better than the other is absolutely unacceptable. It will surely wreak havoc on the integrity of the league structure due to the fact that, while there is a great disparity between the overall quality of the conferences in a league, they are both considered equally with regards to promotions.

A structure has to exist in which quality teams move up. I don't think anyone cares what that method is, but the current structure will not work and may have already done irreparable damage to the PeeWee leaguess.

Tiered is the way to go IMO. doesn't matter what each tier is named.

Promotions wise, whether it is a BCS style thing or a simple promotion/demotion system, as long as we can find a way to get the right teams into the right leagues then I'm all for it.

I do agree with you, but I think that is just too much too get changed at this stage. Id like to see the 2nd tier of Pee Wee be only 4 leagues. That would give us an actual promotion/demotion system too, instead of everyone from Copper automatically moving to Silver.

Originally posted by SmoothCaramel
I do agree with you, but I think that is just too much too get changed at this stage. Id like to see the 2nd tier of Pee Wee be only 4 leagues. That would give us an actual promotion/demotion system too, instead of everyone from Copper automatically moving to Silver.

word

http://goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=4157671

We need to get some +1's in there, it'll only take you 10sec to do, or a minute to make a comment.

Originally posted by SmoothCaramel
http://goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=4157671

We need to get some +1's in there, it'll only take you 10sec to do, or a minute to make a comment.

I think a random reshuffle is the worst thing that could happen, so I'll steer clear of commenting on your thread , as that seems to be the solution you are proposing. (I don't want to tarnish/oppose it there out of respect)

the 1x Gold league, 4x Silver idea is better than what we have for sure, but I still think some sort of promotion across the board is the best solution. Reason being that there are more than 32 dominant teams in the Peewee's, and plenty of decent but not dominant ones, who still get hammered by the 33-45th best teams. I think there needs to be at least 4-5 tiers to match up teams adequately. Here's a compromise/option:

Gold
Silver Elite (1 league)
Silver Competitive (2 leagues)
Silver (3 leagues)
Copper Elite (4 leagues)
Copper Competitive (5 leagues)
Copper (the rest)

Not sure if the math adds up with the number of teams in total, but you get the idea. Doesn't really matter we could call them either, could be Silver AAA , Silver AA etc.

Originally posted by JohnnyP
(I don't want to tarnish/oppose it there out of respect)

No respect needed

Originally posted by JohnnyP

Gold
Silver Elite (1 league)
Silver Competitive (2 leagues)
Silver (3 leagues)
Copper Elite (4 leagues)
Copper Competitive (5 leagues)
Copper (the rest)

Not sure if the math adds up with the number of teams in total, but you get the idea. Doesn't really matter we could call them either, could be Silver AAA , Silver AA etc.

As long as you can work out a good promotion/demotion system, like winners move up 2 tiers (as you suggested on page 1), I don't mind a large league structure like that.

Silver Elite would need to be 2 leagues IMO.

Originally posted by SmoothCaramel
Silver Elite would need to be 2 leagues IMO.

Yeah, I'm not sure exactly where the fall-off is, but it'll be pretty obvious by the margin of victories. The thing about having one Silver Elite is that it separates the teams on the cusp of gold. I don't know if there's 64 teams worthy of being on that cusp.

Based on my Silver league (correct me if this trend isn't global) there's probably only 3-4 teams that stand out from the rest. Those 3-4 teams equal about 32 when multiplied by all leagues (1 'Elite' league worth). There's also probably 10-15 competitive teams who end up about 12-4, but get beaten convincingly by the top couple teams (they can fight between Silver and Silver Competitive spots). Then there's usually 10-15 mediocre 6-8 win teams (Copper Elite fighting their way into Silver). Then there's all the cannon fodder filling the Copper ranks.

It's hard to work out a promotional system until the league numbers in each tier were locked (compressing 2 leagues into the next tier would be different from doing it with 3 or 4 teams). But I do think that the promotions should be made to fit the chosen structure, not the other way around. (The structure is most important)

If there is more support for this idea, I could do the math and propose a good promotion structure where dominant teams can fast track, so they don't spend the first 4 seasons in different leagues as they climb...

Originally posted by JohnnyP
I think a random reshuffle is the worst thing that could happen, so I'll steer clear of commenting on your thread , as that seems to be the solution you are proposing. (I don't want to tarnish/oppose it there out of respect)

the 1x Gold league, 4x Silver idea is better than what we have for sure, but I still think some sort of promotion across the board is the best solution. Reason being that there are more than 32 dominant teams in the Peewee's, and plenty of decent but not dominant ones, who still get hammered by the 33-45th best teams. I think there needs to be at least 4-5 tiers to match up teams adequately. Here's a compromise/option:

Gold
Silver Elite (1 league)
Silver Competitive (2 leagues)
Silver (3 leagues)
Copper Elite (4 leagues)
Copper Competitive (5 leagues)
Copper (the rest)

Not sure if the math adds up with the number of teams in total, but you get the idea. Doesn't really matter we could call them either, could be Silver AAA , Silver AA etc.

Something like this could work, in theory, but it'd need a good system mechanic for working out how to judge whether a team is elite, competitive, or casual. Designing a way to weight such a statistic would require some math, but I think it'd be doable.

I'm no math major, but, just from glancing at it, something like this could work IMO.

--

Let's say you take every team in PeeWee, and go back... maybe 2 or 3 seasons just for sake of theory and example. From this, you extrapolate a few things - the number of players on the roster, their average player level by the end of season, and the number of players who had custom equipment. Each one of these things would add a "weight", or, a relative point value, to the W's and L's produced by that team (meaning, teams with more and better players, and more custom equipment would be considered more elite, and teams with less would be considered less elite, for the sake of adding or subtracting weight from their given L's and W's).

Ideally, winning against a team that's more elite than you would raise your W point total more than winning against a more casual team, and losing against a more casual team would increase your L score more than losing against a more elite team. So, there would need to be some kind of quick comparison check once each teams respective scores are ascertained to figure out how they would change after a W or L.

Anyway, after you determine the win to loss ratio and points using this kind of system, it's a relatively simple matter of calculating the overall point totals in the W's and L's for each team. Teams with the highest W weight and the lowest L weight would go Gold, teams with the highest L weight would go copper casual, with the rest falling somewhere in between. After a season or two, any outlier teams would work themselves up or down the system to their appropriate levels, and you'd have a league that should have appropriate competitiveness.

Well, anyway, just my two cents.

How do those power ranking scripts work?

I don't know how accurate they are, but I'd assume they take into account most of those above things. All we need is a 'Bort Approved' power ranking script for starters.

After that I think a promotion/demotion system works best, providing there is some sort of fast tracking involved (where dominant teams can jump up 2 leagues for example)

Reason I think promotion works better than a power ranking script is that you only play teams in your league, so there's no way to get victories over high ranked opposition. I don't think we can trust scrims and preseason games - it only makes room for exploiting the system.

Also, I don't think we should worry too much about boosting vs non boosting when accessing teams - it should be just good vs bad (overall success is what matters, where boosting should = more success naturally). Reason being is that experienced owners build players better, so it's not an even race anyway. A bad player boosted can still be worse than a good build.