Warrior General Games

This thread sux

kick the opposing player in the balls, then get the QB... works everytime !

Originally posted by Daddy Warbucks
That said, this


Originally posted by notgoing2argue

You can get sacks on any of the settings.


is still true. I'm not saying it isn't. Getting sacks is more about player build than anything else, but playing on run or balance will not give you any BOOST to getting sacks
running on pass will. that's why it's "better for getting sacks" which is the topic

Like I said before, maybe in past seasons' sims pass focus will give you the best sack total, but this season I honestly believe balanced was the best and run focus at least equal to pass for getting sacks. Unless, you're talking about getting sacks against CPU, then yes, pass might have been better.

I understand your argument, you think the + to reading pass plays means you'll get more sacks. That's fine if you believe it, but from my experience it just wasn't true this season. Pass focus was the best before the strength buff for the Oline. If you believe pass focus is the BEST, then I'm glad you used the shit out of it on your guys. Now note the bolded part above. I never said playing on run focus will give you a BOOST. Sorry if you read it that way, but I'm saying you can benefit from having the guards move first on the pass plays. Argue all you want for the opposite, but the pathing for the Dline seems better if the guard is further away.

I chose not to use pass on my guys because, as I said in another post, I believe it is more benefitial for the pass rusher to get the guard and tackles moving backwards first. Maybe it is a pathing and change direction issue for them. Then again, maybe you're right and my builds are just that good. In that case, I guess then you could argue that my DT would have had 30-60 sacks if I played him on pass focus this season. Shit man, I missed out on all those extra sacks due to my over-analytical retardedness.

Here's some more ancedotal evidence from today.
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=584325&pbp_id=21044781

In other news my DE got 5 sacks against a 14-2 team in his league. I don't really count those because I outleveled the OTs by quite a bit. But, I doubt I would have gotten that many on pass focus. I did try pass the game before due to this thread, and he got 1 hurry against a level 27 CPU OT with a 30 blocking bar. Anybody reading this should really try to keep this one fact in mind at all times:

This ain't football. This is a game, and the game does what the code spits out. Sometimes, the balance isn't right in that code and what seems like the best thing because its description leads you to believe it's the best thing, really isn't that good.

Anyway, it's been fun Daddy Warbucks. Best of luck getting sacks on whatever setting you chose to use. I'm thru arguing my side of things for this season because it's over. We'll see what the S10 sim will bring. I'm sure it will be a whole new set of bones to read.

Originally posted by UnderDogs
Originally posted by MIA99

A sack can only be obtained on a passing play.

Holy shit, talk about a major wake up call. I need to change my d.e's tactics. I thought sacks were on run plays.

A sack of what? I'm not following?

I run on balanced TBH. I'm not that worried about sacks.

Originally posted by Dudly
I don't buy the "slow DEs are beating the system," argument. It's stupid

THIS.

i tried a bullrush DE technique mixing 110 strength, 80 agility and 70 speed mixed with 16 shed block and 15 heavyweight. my logic: the LE, on pass focus, would (1) immediately make contact with the OT (projected strength 90, agility 75, blocking 80) with a bullrush move. (2) engage shed block. (3) engage heavyweight. (4) have an unimpeded view of the QB for the sack.

this has never occurred. player is standing by for retirement.

Originally posted by fakesanta
Originally posted by Dudly

I don't buy the "slow DEs are beating the system," argument. It's stupid

THIS.

i tried a bullrush DE technique mixing 110 strength, 80 agility and 70 speed mixed with 16 shed block and 15 heavyweight. my logic: the LE, on pass focus, would (1) immediately make contact with the OT (projected strength 90, agility 75, blocking 80) with a bullrush move. (2) engage shed block. (3) engage heavyweight. (4) have an unimpeded view of the QB for the sack.

this has never occurred. player is standing by for retirement.

Bullrush isn't being slow, it's running directly into the Oline and being stopped, haha. You want to go with elusive if you have decent agility and want to be more than a space eater. Bullrush has rarely ever worked for getting sacks unless you have 120+ strength and pancake the blocker.

Originally posted by Larry33bird
Originally posted by UnderDogs

Originally posted by MIA99


A sack can only be obtained on a passing play.

Holy shit, talk about a major wake up call. I need to change my d.e's tactics. I thought sacks were on run plays.

A sack of what? I'm not following?



A sack of shit running back that gets pwned in the GAROUND!

Originally posted by notgoing2argue
Originally posted by fakesanta

Originally posted by Dudly


I don't buy the "slow DEs are beating the system," argument. It's stupid

THIS.

i tried a bullrush DE technique mixing 110 strength, 80 agility and 70 speed mixed with 16 shed block and 15 heavyweight. my logic: the LE, on pass focus, would (1) immediately make contact with the OT (projected strength 90, agility 75, blocking 80) with a bullrush move. (2) engage shed block. (3) engage heavyweight. (4) have an unimpeded view of the QB for the sack.

this has never occurred. player is standing by for retirement.

Bullrush isn't being slow, it's running directly into the Oline and being stopped, haha. You want to go with elusive if you have decent agility and want to be more than a space eater. Bullrush has rarely ever worked for getting sacks unless you have 120+ strength and pancake the blocker.

i think you mean "reverse pancake." and you miss my point.

the point of the DE being set to "bullrush" was to initiate quick contact with the offensive lineman and hasten the block/shed block roll. with 16 shed block, this DE should be shedding anywhere from 16-32% more blocks than the mean. with 15 heavyweight, he should be "reverse pancaking" 30% of the time he sheds a block.

"bullrushing" is definitely a technique used for pass rushing, in both GLB and RL

Originally posted by fakesanta
Originally posted by notgoing2argue

Originally posted by fakesanta


Originally posted by Dudly



I don't buy the "slow DEs are beating the system," argument. It's stupid

THIS.

i tried a bullrush DE technique mixing 110 strength, 80 agility and 70 speed mixed with 16 shed block and 15 heavyweight. my logic: the LE, on pass focus, would (1) immediately make contact with the OT (projected strength 90, agility 75, blocking 80) with a bullrush move. (2) engage shed block. (3) engage heavyweight. (4) have an unimpeded view of the QB for the sack.

this has never occurred. player is standing by for retirement.

Bullrush isn't being slow, it's running directly into the Oline and being stopped, haha. You want to go with elusive if you have decent agility and want to be more than a space eater. Bullrush has rarely ever worked for getting sacks unless you have 120+ strength and pancake the blocker.

i think you mean "reverse pancake." and you miss my point.

the point of the DE being set to "bullrush" was to initiate quick contact with the offensive lineman and hasten the block/shed block roll. with 16 shed block, this DE should be shedding anywhere from 16-32% more blocks than the mean. with 15 heavyweight, he should be "reverse pancaking" 30% of the time he sheds a block.

"bullrushing" is definitely a technique used for pass rushing, in both GLB and RL

I understand you man, but why would you do something that clearly doesn't work that well in this game? Bullrushing for example. I think your math is a little off as well, so your expectations are way too high for the Heavyweight VA. The Heavyweight VA says it gives you a +2% bonus to knock his defender down. I don't think it is a flat +2% everytime you break a block like you are saying it is, it is a +2% to what your chance (roll to cause a pancake) is without it. Let's say you have a 10% chance w/o Heavyweight, then with it you're not at 40% chance, you're at 13% (10 X 1.3). I think the Heavyweight is a multiplier bonus like most everything else in this game. You'd really need a major strength advantage for the initial reverse pancake roll to have a high probability to occur. With HW you're basically adding a nice bonus to something that has a small chance to occur.

Originally posted by notgoing2argue
why would you do something that clearly doesn't work that well in this game? Bullrushing for example. I think your math is a little off as well

no doubt my math is off. i believe you're correct about it not being a "flat" percentage added. so let's not get wrapped around the axle on it.

my point is that "slow" DE's can't pass rush effectively. i tried something unconventional and failed. but i gave it a good shot!

is your point that bullrushing is an ineffective method to collapse the pocket?

A successful standalone slow DE last season was one that was slow off the snap, but otherwise a good speed DE. The LOT would engage the DT, and the RDE would have a free lane. With the introduction of the DPC, this became less relevant.

Some slow DEs (~60-80) were having success because the DE on the opposite side (usually the RDE) had a much better build, creating an imbalance in the amount of hurry pressure applied to the QB. As a result, the QB would run away from the larger perceived threat (RDE) and straight into the perceived non-threat (LDE).

As for the topic, I believe that Bort made a post a few seasons back saying that play type focus doesn't affect pass rushing, only coverage on pass/run plays. Unfortunately, unless someone has the link saved, I can't confirm if that is true.

Originally posted by G33
A successful standalone slow DE last season was one that was slow off the snap, but otherwise a good speed DE. The LOT would engage the DT, and the RDE would have a free lane. With the introduction of the DPC, this became less relevant.

Some slow DEs (~60-80) were having success because the DE on the opposite side (usually the RDE) had a much better build, creating an imbalance in the amount of hurry pressure applied to the QB. As a result, the QB would run away from the larger perceived threat (RDE) and straight into the perceived non-threat (LDE).

As for the topic, I believe that Bort made a post a few seasons back saying that play type focus doesn't affect pass rushing, only coverage on pass/run plays. Unfortunately, unless someone has the link saved, I can't confirm if that is true.

very interesting. i believed (used to, i guess) that the "play focus" enhanced vision slightly on the chosen play type (pass focus gives +1% to you on pass plays, -1% on run plays, and balanced doesn't help/hurt at all.

so if an offensive lineman is on run focus, it won't help him run block better at all, since it's only an option for defenders? hm .... negative!

Originally posted by G33
A successful standalone slow DE last season was one that was slow off the snap, but otherwise a good speed DE. The LOT would engage the DT, and the RDE would have a free lane. With the introduction of the DPC, this became less relevant.

Some slow DEs (~60-80) were having success because the DE on the opposite side (usually the RDE) had a much better build, creating an imbalance in the amount of hurry pressure applied to the QB. As a result, the QB would run away from the larger perceived threat (RDE) and straight into the perceived non-threat (LDE).

As for the topic, I believe that Bort made a post a few seasons back saying that play type focus doesn't affect pass rushing, only coverage on pass/run plays. Unfortunately, unless someone has the link saved, I can't confirm if that is true.

Hmmm... thanks for the info, I will go check.

However, I though play focus gives you a vision boost (better recognition) which helps you pass vision check on passing/running plays. If you have pass focus and it's a pass play then your chance to pass the vision check would be higher, but if it's a run play then it would be lowered.

Perhaps this is what Bort meant: since passing vision check doesn't directly help your chance in pass rushing, but only allows your DE to get off the line at normal pace instead of a penalty tick slower.

Whoa! Ask a simple question...get this?

I have a level 52 DE and haven't noticed a difference with any of the 3 play focuseseses