Warrior General Games

dont be silly. We both know tackling doesn't help pass defense. It helps you tackle, that is it.
Im also skeptical that it increases your "tackle radius", although you could be right, I never really considered what tackling does because its not important.
Also tackling doesnt make your "pass defense" bar go up. It makes your "tackling" bar go up and your overall bar go up.

Why do I think catching will have a good effect?
Ok so UD had 3 corners. 2 capped catching first, 1 capped jumping first. other than that, they were supposedly identical builds that played against the exact same WRs(they rotated out at the top spots I believe).
Now yes, they were only in their mid 20s, not fully matured, but that is irrelevant. I do not believe the experiment shows that catching>jumping.
But what it does show, and this is undeniable, is that catching HAD A POSITIVE EFFECT, on the play of these 2 corners. Catching made these two dudes play better pass defense then the one that had just jumping. Here is my theory:

Jumping is fairly useless without strength/catching because you will get into position but you wont really have the skills to make a play. Catching allows you to make a play, whether its a catch or a PD(a failed catch?). I see catching and jumping as coexistent. Catching feeds of jumping, jumping feeds of catching. They compliment eachother. CBs with high catching and low jumping wont get into position as often. CBs with high jumping and low catching will get into position, but not catch the ball or deflect it very well.

I'd be surprised if strength didn't play a factor in other things. If you just look at the training combinations they have Leg Press, which is Strength and Jumping combined. I'd be surprised if strength didn't have a small effect also on how high he can jump.

I'd say a corner who is going to play Nickel would have to be slightly stronger than usual, as there is more of a chance that a team may run out of a 3WR set in this game.

One suggestion of what strength was good for I read once, and I'm still not sure if this is useful at all, was that strength affected how far the ball went when the pass was deflected... i.e. a stronger player may deflect the pass for a further distance, putting it either out of reach of the receiver or into the path of another defender. But that may be just shit.

To be honest, I think a sensible line has to be taken with this, and maybe even look at realistic examples in the world of football. If attributes pretty much go from 8 to 100 (ish) then the strongest players on a field with 100 would be O Line and Defensive Tackles, then you go down to tight ends, DE's, Linebackers, Running Backs, Safeties.... receivers and corners are near the bottom but they certainly aren't to be as weak as kickers or punters. But then again, in this game these players have strength of like 70+ most of the time.

For a normal, balanced corner who you don't want to miss a tackle on a receiver I think the maximum you would ever want is 40 strength, 49 tackling... maximum! But then again, you may want to use something in conjunction with Jackhammer and have higher so that all those receivers with only 30 carrying, you make them cough it up more.

mmuhr, I've had fun with the debate. It's good to hear alternative viewpoints.

I'm going to agree to disagree with your argument, but will agree that it's valid for some CB's.

I think the experiment is flawed for two reasons: low-leveled CB's as we've discussed and small sample size. Catching probably does have a positive effect on WR's, but I don't think it's as big as most think.

I also don't think that jumping is useless without strength or catching. I strongly disagree with "CBs with high jumping and low catching will get into position, but not catch the ball or deflect it very well. " My CB led SAPL in PD's last season with low catching. My teammate was #2 in SAPL in PD and INT, but I can't give away his build, which is pretty different from mine in some key areas.

I agree its not proven and that experiement is sketchy....but Underdogs is a pretty smart guy and I trust him.

Originally posted by JD Cuda
mmuhr, I've had fun with the debate. It's good to hear alternative viewpoints.

I'm going to agree to disagree with your argument, but will agree that it's valid for some CB's.

I think the experiment is flawed for two reasons: low-leveled CB's as we've discussed and small sample size. Catching probably does have a positive effect on WR's, but I don't think it's as big as most think.

I also don't think that jumping is useless without strength or catching. I strongly disagree with "CBs with high jumping and low catching will get into position, but not catch the ball or deflect it very well. " My CB led SAPL in PD's last season with low catching. My teammate was #2 in SAPL in PD and INT, but I can't give away his build, which is pretty different from mine in some key areas.What's "low catching" to you? I don't think anyone is talking about taking catching above the first cap in these tests

Well, I've got 35 in catching. I consider that low. I consider anything below 48 to be low and anything below 40 to be really low. So I think I have really low catching.

i see

this catching vs jumping crap makes me dizzy

Originally posted by magicalmrrich
I'd be surprised if strength didn't play a factor in other things. If you just look at the training combinations they have Leg Press, which is Strength and Jumping combined. I'd be surprised if strength didn't have a small effect also on how high he can jump.

I'd say a corner who is going to play Nickel would have to be slightly stronger than usual, as there is more of a chance that a team may run out of a 3WR set in this game.

One suggestion of what strength was good for I read once, and I'm still not sure if this is useful at all, was that strength affected how far the ball went when the pass was deflected... i.e. a stronger player may deflect the pass for a further distance, putting it either out of reach of the receiver or into the path of another defender. But that may be just shit.

To be honest, I think a sensible line has to be taken with this, and maybe even look at realistic examples in the world of football. If attributes pretty much go from 8 to 100 (ish) then the strongest players on a field with 100 would be O Line and Defensive Tackles, then you go down to tight ends, DE's, Linebackers, Running Backs, Safeties.... receivers and corners are near the bottom but they certainly aren't to be as weak as kickers or punters. But then again, in this game these players have strength of like 70+ most of the time.

For a normal, balanced corner who you don't want to miss a tackle on a receiver I think the maximum you would ever want is 40 strength, 49 tackling... maximum! But then again, you may want to use something in conjunction with Jackhammer and have higher so that all those receivers with only 30 carrying, you make them cough it up more.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if str was factored in the formula for jumping. Maybe it's like 1/10 str, but it's probably there. I also notice, the team My S.S. is on, the F.S. will blitz with him from the same spot in cover two. My S.S. appears faster than the F.S. InTHEZone has significantly more speed and agility than my own S.S. by significant I mean like 5 or 6 more in each.

My S.S. is very strong but slower. Everything else the F.S. has is better than my own safety. Obviously so, since I sacrificed other things to bring str to 70. Why does my guy look faster than a player who is more fast, agile, has more vision, ect...ect.. just less str.
I think It's because str is factored into how fast you can move too.

It's also fun watching him plow fullbacks over.

Closing Speed?

Originally posted by letchkins
Closing Speed?

I don't waste S.P's in closing speed. Also I pointed out it was on a blitz. Closing speed wouldn't work even If he had it.

Tackling and strength are a waste of time. It's not MY job to tackle.

This is the reason Deion Sanders is going to go to the HoF and Ronde Barber won't even sniff it.

I'd rather use my 5 SPs from a level-up on 1 additional agility than 5 tackling.

my lvl 33 corner has 29 str/23 tkl. I'm just training 'em at this point. Never put a single point in 'em. He's had 23 missed tackles out of 242 total attempts throughout his career. Most of the missed tackles were amassed in his first two seasons (22 total). He had none last year and one missed tackle the year before.