Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Viscount
He does really have 10 Route Run, he's my SA heavy WR, his build's open: http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=831539

I just wanted to know if you really saw a difference or were just seeing what you wanted to see, because I honestly can't see much of a difference before and after the catch despite my previous praise of Route Run.

thanks for that tidbit - i do believe i see a small difference. i'll have to look at some more of his routes knowing his attributes now.

u see the diff here?

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=387579&pbp_id=6961588

looks pretty noticable to me.

Or it could have been FS firing on the part before the catch? Hmm.

Originally posted by Mob-6

Visc, on the flip side of the noticing RR make a difference, could you tell the difference between two guys with a 10 speed difference? I think RR helps, we just don't notice it like another 10 speed doesn't show on the replays.

Good point. But I would expect 10 Route Run to have a somewhat noticeable difference, especially since Bort has once said that SAs give more than a simple +1 (at least that was my interpretation).
Originally posted by BRAWLER

I say this with respect. If you were to show a quality move like that against an equal cb rather than a lvl 30 wr to a poor build lvl16 cb it would mean a little more. If anyone wants they can go into game log pick game replays to see how this WR builds works against a better cbs. That will give a little more support. However it may work the same. I have not looked. Just think more fair /equal clip would suffice.


The competition does not affect my WR's speed, whether he's against a level 1 CB or level 50 CB it should not matter. My point is that I'm not noticing much of a difference in speed before and after the catch, the CB he's aginst has no bearing on that.

Originally posted by zomgmike


Originally posted by digital daggers

Agility

* How fast your player can adjust their movement. If you want to dodge a tackle or head past a blocker you'll want high agility. Important for any player who needs to turn quickly...Lineman as well as speedsters. Agility also determines acceleration. You can have all the speed in the world, but without agility, you won't ever reach that top speed.

That guide was written Jan 30, 2008 11:22:21 when the game first started. Anyone who started playing within the first 3 seasons knew that for about 5 seasons agility had absolutely nothing to do with straight line acceleration.

That guide also says that blocking will help you break blocks, which many people have found not to be true.

Don't believe everything you read.

I like it when Visc. is active in the WR forums, it makes my job easier.
Get agility for the fakes and for the catching help, not for acceleration.

Originally posted by Viscount
Originally posted by zomgmike

Originally posted by Viscount


Originally posted by zomgmike


Originally posted by Viscount


He does really have 10 Route Run, he's my SA heavy WR, his build's open: http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=831539

I just wanted to know if you really saw a difference or were just seeing what you wanted to see, because I honestly can't see much of a difference before and after the catch despite my previous praise of Route Run.

keyword, much. if you can visually tell a difference in speed, that would a good amount. Although with 10 in RR, you would want more "bang" for it, its still an improvement. I honestly think you need more agi though

Er his 12 Quick Cut and 8 First Step more than make up for any agility he may or may not need...

acceleration in a straight line has nothing to do with quick cut and when first step doesnt fire you are stuck with your average agi to help get up to speed.

You only have a level 23 WR, so I shall respectfully ignore your opinion on straight line acceleration. I have experimwnted with many WRs and players in general with varying speed:agility ratios to know what works well and what doesn't.

For example, my HB who plays with 118 speed and just 62 agility (also only 1 First Step) has absolutely no problems with straight line or diagonal acceleration:
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=395495&pbp_id=6732422

And here are many more examples in this thread: http://goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=1582194


Edit: Also, this is what more agility would look like, one of my other WR with 95 speed and 70 agility:
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=422261&pbp_id=14331010

I always planned on taking agility to 74 natural once I finished taking care of speed. Now I'm not so sure. Any advice from people as to what I should take agility to?

Originally posted by Viscount
Originally posted by zomgmike

Originally posted by Viscount


Originally posted by zomgmike


Originally posted by Viscount


He does really have 10 Route Run, he's my SA heavy WR, his build's open: http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=831539

I just wanted to know if you really saw a difference or were just seeing what you wanted to see, because I honestly can't see much of a difference before and after the catch despite my previous praise of Route Run.

keyword, much. if you can visually tell a difference in speed, that would a good amount. Although with 10 in RR, you would want more "bang" for it, its still an improvement. I honestly think you need more agi though

Er his 12 Quick Cut and 8 First Step more than make up for any agility he may or may not need...

acceleration in a straight line has nothing to do with quick cut and when first step doesnt fire you are stuck with your average agi to help get up to speed.

You only have a level 23 WR, so I shall respectfully ignore your opinion on straight line acceleration. I have experimwnted with many WRs and players in general with varying speed:agility ratios to know what works well and what doesn't.

For example, my HB who plays with 118 speed and just 62 agility (also only 1 First Step) has absolutely no problems with straight line or diagonal acceleration:
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=395495&pbp_id=6732422

And here are many more examples in this thread: http://goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=1582194


Edit: Also, this is what more agility would look like, one of my other WR with 95 speed and 70 agility:
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=422261&pbp_id=14331010

So how much agility would you say is necessary for say... 105 speed.
No QC or FS. (except for CE)

Originally posted by gordini

So how much agility would you say is necessary for say... 105 speed.
No QC or FS. (except for CE)

Well you need to at least soft cap it (48.07), but after that it's really up to you and what you want your WR to do.

http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=124758

For straight line speed and a 1 dimensional deep threat (which works great if your team plays to that strength), soft capped agility.

For cutting, soft capped agility and high QC.

If you want you speedster to be a #1 WR rather than a #3, then you will need 68 agility and HF/Juke, though that could change next season. Fast WRs this season have been having a shitty time in the short passing game with deflections and incompletions. Bort has said that the key for fast WRs to get open on short routes are the fakes (which makes sense because they are in the SA tree and would need to have some use, right?). I'd set my sights on 68 agility to get Juke to work on route running reasonable well as it requires agility to trigger. This could be outdated in season 9 depending on how well Bort improves catching or the passing game.

would you guys suggest anything beyond the 68 cap in agility?

Bort has said super elusive running needs 70 agility. Is 68 enough? I don't know.

Super elusive also doesn't work very well, so I wouldn't worry about that. If you slow build your WR right there might be some value in taking agility to the 74 cap, but it's not really necessary imo