Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Challenge Everything
Originally posted by zero

Originally posted by UnderDogs

Originally posted by AJHawk

Originally posted by zero

Vision is worthless past a certain number... it has such diminishing returns
Agilityproof??it's not completely Worthless, but it does get to a point where it's over kill.This. And my whole deal against it is the posts made by high vision safeties touting how well their safety read a particular play, and then seeing a guy with 48 vision do the EXACT same thing in other replays. I've seen this countless times.
Are you a tester? If not, what you speak is hyperbole. The same can be said, what you say about vision, about speed, agility, and so on as well.

I just want to point out, Challenge Everything, that speed and agility are much easier to recognize in effect than vision. Those attributes are more direct and you can clearly see them on every play. The difference between a safety with 80 speed and one with 50 speed is much more obvious than comparing one with 80 vision and 50 vision.

Vision sucks. Any vision-based safety is going to be terrible, obviously.

Originally posted by Asheme
Vision sucks. Any vision-based safety is going to be terrible, obviously.

ITP Asheme stealthily trying to make people build bad safties

Originally posted by zero
that speed and agility are much easier to recognize in effect than vision. Those attributes are more direct and you can clearly see them on every play. The difference between a safety with 80 speed and one with 50 speed is much more obvious than comparing one with 80 vision and 50 vision.
I understand what you are trying to say but lining up an 80 speed vs 50 speed will show a difference.

Lining up an 80 vision vs a 50 vision will also show a difference. What is that difference though?

An 80 vision will not get pump faked like a 50 vision will. An 80 negate the great QB while the 50 vision will falter... even with high speed. The difference in vision is tangible. Since we do not know the opponent's QB stats, it is difficult to say what a 30 point difference in vision does do. A 30 point difference in speed will ultimately make the higher number faster but speed is only on one plain of existence, if you will. Agility is on another and vision is on another. They all need to combine to make a good combination.

Who cares. Safetys (well, FS mainly) aren't about getting crazy stats in GLB. Look at free safetys on the best teams in GLB. Not putting up crazy stats. That isn't because they're built poorly either. Who cares. More than one way to skin a cat

Originally posted by adeepercut2k
FS - I'd go agility...especially if you are in man coverage a lot of the times.
SS - I'd go vision...especially if your team has you in zone and run support.

You have it reversed. SS would play less zone and the FS would play more zone. So FS-Vision and SS-Agility

Cover 0 SS/FS in man
Cover 1 SS in man/FS in zone
Cover 2 SS/FS in zone

Meaning 2 out of the 3 the FS is in Zone and 1 out of the 3 SS is in zone

Originally posted by Asheme
Vision sucks. Any vision-based safety is going to be terrible, obviously.

Vision doesn't suck. I get your sarcastic tone. But vision is not needed in abundance. You people spouting off at the mouth about vision need to stop confusing the noobs. My S.S. probably plays better than yours with really low vision.

Also, Deadpool is one of the highest Leveled players in your whole league. My s.s. is one of the lowest levels on his own team.

Yeah you play in The PROS and mine AAA. I still don't think you need as much vision as you people try to get people to believe.

Originally posted by chronoaug
Who cares. Safetys (well, FS mainly) aren't about getting crazy stats in GLB. Look at free safetys on the best teams in GLB. Not putting up crazy stats. That isn't because they're built poorly either. Who cares. More than one way to skin a cat

Yeah who cares. it's 3rd and 2 and you're in cover 2 or cover 1. yeah who cares!

Originally posted by UnderDogs
Also, Deadpool is one of the highest Leveled players in your whole league. My s.s. is one of the lowest levels on his own team.
Well, to be fair, Deadpool is one of the highest leveled players in the game, that's what being a Day 0 player will do (I think that should earn me some bonus points, though, since most Day 0 players aren't very good).

Obviously high vision can be successful, since my SS has high vision and he's regarded as the best SS in the game (by other people, mind you, not me), so I don't think I'm confusing any noobs. There are multiple types of SS, mine is built for pass coverage, always has been. High vision helps out a lot.

I have a level 35 slowbuild safety who is now in AAA.

He has been facing competition that outlevels him by 10+ his whole career after the D-Leagues and this has been the first season he has contributed outside of special teams.

With 68 vision I have to say the results have been inconsistent and those points would have been better off with more speed and strength.

Originally posted by UnderDogs
Originally posted by chronoaug

Who cares. Safetys (well, FS mainly) aren't about getting crazy stats in GLB. Look at free safetys on the best teams in GLB. Not putting up crazy stats. That isn't because they're built poorly either. Who cares. More than one way to skin a cat

Yeah who cares. it's 3rd and 2 and you're in cover 2 or cover 1. yeah who cares!

What i'm saying is that there are examples of effective safetys with different builds. The idea that there is an ultimate build is kinda silly.

Underdogs: "Vision doesn't suck. I get your sarcastic tone. But vision is not needed in abundance. You people spouting off at the mouth about vision need to stop confusing the noobs. My S.S. probably plays better than yours with really low vision.

Also, Deadpool is one of the highest Leveled players in your whole league. My s.s. is one of the lowest levels on his own team.

Yeah you play in The PROS and mine AAA. I still don't think you need as much vision as you people try to get people to believe."

Asheme: "Well, to be fair, Deadpool is one of the highest leveled players in the game, that's what being a Day 0 player will do (I think that should earn me some bonus points, though, since most Day 0 players aren't very good).

Obviously high vision can be successful, since my SS has high vision and he's regarded as the best SS in the game (by other people, mind you, not me), so I don't think I'm confusing any noobs. There are multiple types of SS, mine is built for pass coverage, always has been. High vision helps out a lot."

chronoaug: "What i'm saying is that there are examples of effective safetys with different builds. The idea that there is an ultimate build is kinda silly."

It's pretty much agreed from the top tier of Safety Discusers that vision is NEEDED.

Some will say not as much as others. However their personal safeties have been built in a certain fashion that works for the player's build. I would say at the fraking least to soft cap it. I don't want to be mean, or rude... but anything else (and those who believe that it shouldn't even be at softcap) is probably a VERY bad idea. I would say 60 vision is where i would recommend vision to be atleast by the end of a safeties career.

This is how i see this going.

All these are unmodded #s

Coverage Safeties (Basically a CB with more vision and tackling):

Speed 68 or higher
Agility 68 or higher
Vision 68 or higher
Tackling 48 or higher
Strength Trained maybe soft capped



Run Stuffing Safeties (or what i like to think of them ... an Extra LB)


Speed 60 or higher
Agility 60
Vision 50
Tackling 60 or higher
Strength 60 or higher


These i like to consider the extremes. Then there are the builds that combo the 2 in various ways. Some try to have 68 speed/ vision, and agility at 60 (or vision at 60 and agility at 68), while tackling is at 60 aswell... a kinda, fast coverage safety that can make the tackles too.

Speed 68
Agility 60 (or 68)
Vision 68 (or 60)
Tackling 60
Strength 48

And the variability is even increased more when adding equipment to these builds aswell. I wont even go their ... There is alot of ways to build safeties ... none are right, none are wrong. And depending on the team, one is needed more than another.

In the end this is an RPG football game. If all the Safeties where the same.... it be VERY boring. If all the Safeties in the NFL were cloned, and built to be exactly the same... that would be boring as well (when it comes to sports... it would be interesting from a scientific point of view however) ...

Originally posted by Stone Mason

In the end this is an RPG football game. If all the Safeties where the same.... it be VERY boring. If all the Safeties in the NFL were cloned, and built to be exactly the same... that would be boring as well (when it comes to sports... it would be interesting from a scientific point of view however) ...

That's true, which is why I enjoy building Safeties so much. I built mine with higher str instead of vision. so where most people go with 70 vision and possibly no str. I went with 70 str and sacrificed vision to do it. I did not sacrifice speed or agility, mind you, so It had to come from somewhere.

So all you can really do is to tell people to look at them play. Mine with 70+str.

or deadpool, or chrono's with 70+ vision? Personally it's boring to watch them imo.

make the decision for yourself. That's all I'm saying.
I'd also like to add these guys telling me I am going to regret not having vision in the higher levels were wrong about that as well. My S.S. is having the best season of his Career after getting promoted from AA to AAA.