Warrior General Games

Think what he's saying is that you can overcome the PD with high enough catching, which I'd agree with.
Especially in those circumstances where it looks like the ball is wobbling around before it's either caught, dropped or deflected.

Nef Ect: If you ever want to "crunch some numbers" yourself, using the "pbr Game Scout":
http://userscripts.org/scripts/show/28938

But as you wish buddy. In 12 close games you were targeted 119 times, resulting in 66 completions, 12 drops, and 38 PDs resulting in a 55% completion-when-targeted percentage. You also had 13 TDs combined in those games. The other WRs on your team Maz and Sammy White completed 64% and 61% of their targets respectively.

Over 1 TD/game is pretty nice, and as far as completion percentage, as a very loose rule, anything over 50% is good/solid, and anything over 60% is good/great. Though obviously a number of different factors including your QB, the QB's protection, the CBs your facing, ect can all be huge factors in completion percentage varying by team. Your WR seems like a stud, so more catching isn't a "must" by any means, though if its an area you'd choose to focus on it wouldn't be a waste.

As far as PD's go, Warbucks is correct in my feelings. Higher catching seems to help you bring the ball in without it being deflected while juggling or what have you. It also perhaps gives you a bigger catching bubble, which might allow you to "outreach" the CB and get to do your catching roll before he does his deflection roll. Though in all honesty a whole lot of GLB passes (especially long ones) happen in such a way where it's very difficult to tell which player has position, and these are situations where higher catching I believe would shine.

I also have a theory that the faster a receiver is moving, the more catching he needs to catch the ball cleanly, though I'm not positive of it by any means. Rather if you look at a WR with 110 speed like Colon Grifter, his completion percentage is dreadful (31%) despite having soft capped jumping/catching which isn't too shabby at all...

Good day.

Thank you for the numbers, rethinking my earlier statement on the way the code works, although I'm sure the PD roll is before the catch roll, the WR's catching probably affects the Deflection roll. I find it interesting that Maz caught 64% of his targets considering he has the same lvl of catching, actually a few lower. I'd guess it had to do with him being our slot receiver. I've been considering bumping up catching, but I'm going to at least reach the 61 cap in speed and agility first. Either way, thanks a lot for the script, very useful.

Good day to you as well

ok "WiseMan" since you apparently think you know so much about WR's , and you took the time to manipulate your little "pbr Game Scout's "settings to scan only certain games of our season (ignoring other games which were against competitive teams)
then maybe you might explain to everyone why your 40th lvl Wide Receiver's stats are so "lacking " ? I mean, you actually control the starting QB and the starting #1 slot WR on the team you own ( a big no no) , and you still can't get the ball to him more? btw his YAC really sucks... sorry to burst your little bubble of imagined self-importance. I fully expect my WR Speed Flash to surpass yours in stats this coming season. Which is really sad, considering I'm 10 lvls under you at lvl 30. So, bag on him all you want, you're just jealous. Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!

PS: And I stick by my earlier statement: I feel sorry for WR's with 70+ catching. ( They will be blanketed by faster CB's and FS's more often- resulting in more chances for the opponents to intercept the pass) So if you really want a WR with 70+ catching, beware, (and make sure you have some other WR's on your team who are up to snuff on their Speed ).

worst case for throwing to a speed guy that got himself wide open: incomplete.
worst case for throwing to a 70 catching guy that's always got a defender right on him: interception.

constantly throwing into coverage just seems too risky.

of course that theory goes out the window if raising catching somehow allows the receiver to prevent PDs and interceptions. if that is the case then why not get catching to 100 and be near immune to defense.

Originally posted by VladtheImpaler1
ok "WiseMan" since you apparently think you know so much about WR's , and you took the time to manipulate your little "pbr Game Scout's "settings to scan only certain games of our season (ignoring other games which were against competitive teams)
then maybe you might explain to everyone why your 40th lvl Wide Receiver's stats are so "lacking " ? I mean, you actually control the starting QB and the starting #1 slot WR on the team you own ( a big no no) , and you still can't get the ball to him more? btw his YAC really sucks... sorry to burst your little bubble of imagined self-importance. I fully expect my WR Speed Flash to surpass yours in stats this coming season. Which is really sad, considering I'm 10 lvls under you at lvl 30. So, bag on him all you want, you're just jealous. Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!

PS: And I stick by my earlier statement: I feel sorry for WR's with 70+ catching. ( They will be blanketed by faster CB's and FS's more often- resulting in more chances for the opponents to intercept the pass) So if you really want a WR with 70+ catching, beware, (and make sure you have some other WR's on your team who are up to snuff on their Speed ).

I just looked at your WR's game log. Sorry to burst your bubble, but he performed pretty bad against close competition. Besides all that, there is no way you can compare stats to his player, a WR in USA AAA. Although I wouldn't advocate raising catching above 70, I'm open to new builds and am not about to make an absolute statement like yours without actual proof of multiple high catching WR's performing extremely poorly against even competition.

Originally posted by monsterkill
worst case for throwing to a speed guy that got himself wide open: incomplete.
worst case for throwing to a 70 catching guy that's always got a defender right on him: interception.

constantly throwing into coverage just seems too risky.

of course that theory goes out the window if raising catching somehow allows the receiver to prevent PDs and interceptions. if that is the case then why not get catching to 100 and be near immune to defense.

That's only true in the case that the catching guy will ALWAYS have a man right on him and the speed guy will ALWAYS get himself wide open.

Really though, speed receivers do not get open at will and one with lower catching might get beaten out by a superior corner while the catching WR can take any little daylight and make it a catch. Not taking sides, just playing devil's advocate.

Originally posted by VladtheImpaler1
ok "WiseMan" since you apparently think you know so much about WR's , and you took the time to manipulate your little "pbr Game Scout's "settings to scan only certain games of our season (ignoring other games which were against competitive teams)
then maybe you might explain to everyone why your 40th lvl Wide Receiver's stats are so "lacking " ? I mean, you actually control the starting QB and the starting #1 slot WR on the team you own ( a big no no) , and you still can't get the ball to him more? btw his YAC really sucks... sorry to burst your little bubble of imagined self-importance. I fully expect my WR Speed Flash to surpass yours in stats this coming season. Which is really sad, considering I'm 10 lvls under you at lvl 30. So, bag on him all you want, you're just jealous. Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!

PS: And I stick by my earlier statement: I feel sorry for WR's with 70+ catching. ( They will be blanketed by faster CB's and FS's more often- resulting in more chances for the opponents to intercept the pass) So if you really want a WR with 70+ catching, beware, (and make sure you have some other WR's on your team who are up to snuff on their Speed ).

Well scouting all 16 regular season games your WR had a 58% completion rate. You can't really compare your stats to WiSeIVIaN as you're in an A league whereas he's in USA AAA. Also if you actually look at the team you'll see that it's a mainly rushing team which is why he doesn't get the ball as much.

Finally how can you feel sorry for something you never experienced or seen? You have no knowledge of how high catching WRs perform. With your way of thinking, that's just like someone with a high catching WR saying that he feels sorry for all speed WRs because they'll drop everything.

Also, I have a Possession WR I'm building with high catching (it's currently at 61). He caught 68% of passes thrown to him, only 8 PDs and 1 INT.

Thx for the reply Vlad my good man. I love talking to people who actually talk back, as the silent types are a bit boring to converse with imo.

As far as the games I selected for the scouting report on your WR, 50 pts is a very liberal way to determine a competitive game, do you mean to suggest that you consider games you win by 80 points to be competitive? To be honest I could care less how a WR plays against gutted or highly out-leveled teams, as one's stats in those games literally mean nothing, as I define a good WR as one who helps his team win games against good teams.

Concerning me owning the #1 WR and the QB on my team. First of all, the QB was brought over this off-season so he has no effect on previous stats. Second of all, he was brought over to help us win as winning is everything. Thirdly, I will be in no way using "favorite targets" or anything of the sort to specifically target my own WR, as again I am only interested in winning, so I fail to see how having a QB and WR on the same team is a real factor.

As for your unfounded attacks on the legend that is Chad Hill (I'm kidding on the legend part for the time being). Anyhow his reasons for having a down year last year are:
1. Increased competition. Only 3 games were won by more than 50 points. The parity that now exists in most Pro and AAA leagues means that I've faced a lot of good CBs and not faced a lot of stat padding gutted teams (something I am by no means complaining about).
2. Decreased pass attempts. In season 4 we slung the rock 744 times, in season 5 670 times, and in season 6 564 times. Again, winning is the goal for my team, not gawdy numbers for my own WR.
3. His build has been less effective as of late. Your WR has less speed/agility than Chad Hill and nowhere in my posts did I say he has close to 70 catching. I believe that me raising catching this season is going to have a big impact on getting him back on the right track in terms of playmaking and production however. Time will tell on that note I suppose. He caught 51% of his targets this past season which I am disappointed in and down own from his 60ish% from season 5, with PDs going way up...

Once again, I am not shortsighted enough to make my comments/suggestions based just on my own player, so in reality my own players production means very little on the topic at hand, since my stance on the issue is mostly build around other productive players who are not my own.

YAC btw is heavily influenced by routes ran as well as quality of competition. In my league if I ran 100% long routes my QB would be destroyed even more so than he already is, because there is a sick combination of fantastic pass rushing DE's along with defensive co-ordinators who blitz all too effectively in the higher leagues. Make no mistake about it, the biggest change when going from A to AA to AAA is the pass rush. Not to mention that if a WR never gets catches on shorter routes because they are all PDs, and only is able to catch the long routes where he burns his man deep, then his YAC will be higher. IMO yac doesn't define a WR, though you do have a higher yac than me so congrats?

And I would fully expect your WR to pass my overall stats this season, though in all honesty it doesn't mean shit if those stats are against gutted teams. In my conference there is 1 team that didn't go 8-8 or better last season. In your conference last year you played 6 awful teams that you put up 100+ points agains while my team played 1. If you don't put up better overall stats than me I'll be disappointed to be quite honest. If you however beat me in things like TD's and completion percentage in GAMES THAT MATTER (aka aren't blowouts) next season, I will however be impressed.

Just to clarify, I think that I know so much about WRs because I in fact do. My comments are in no way meant to imply that speed/agility aren't assets to the position, as all the WRs on my team are easily faster/more agile than the average free agent, but rather to spark conversation and hopefully open the minds of other WR owners, rather than feeding them the same cookie cutter garbage: that you need to max speed and should never go past 48 catching.

Happy New Year to you as well Vladster, you big sweetheart.

Monsterkill-

Just to be clear, WRs don't really get wide open due to speed (against evenish competition). The only reasons they end up catching the ball in space are:
1. A successful pump fake by the QB freezing the CB/S
2. Getting open by making cuts (agility)
3. A failed PD/INT attempt by a CB/S leaving them wide open

Believe it or not, 100+ speed WRs don't simply run past 75 speed CBs every play and end up wide open for 80 yard TDs in single coverage...

Also at no point did I suggest that your WR still doesn't need speed/agility. And at no point did I even almost imply that 100 catching makes it so no defender can defend any of your passes (as that's ridiculous). As it stands, QBs constantly throw into coverage anyhow at speed guys, speed WRs are not constantly open by any means...

Thx for coming to my defense btw Viscount and Nef, you guys are a couple of softies at heart.

Good to know on your possession WR btw Vis. I'm gonna have to keep my eye on him. If he ever needs a new team just let me know (my buddies team not USA AAA obviously, lol).

I have a WR with a 69 Catching. His numbers for the first 11 games last season where he was matched up against even competition.

132 attempts
94 catches
9 Drops
34 PDs
71% Comp %
7 TDs


He was then traded onto a team where he was outmatched and here are his numbers for the last 4 games:

15 Attempts
9 Catches
2 Drops
4 PDs
60% Comp %
0 TDs

So in my opinion even in a situation where he was outmatch he was still pulling in balls. So I think a 70 catching is very good. I'm not sure if I will take it higher then that.

What can I say, I'm in a good mood .

But as long as we are on the subject, I would love to get your guys input on where to take my WR next. I am 1 point away from the 2nd soft cap in a agility and will get that next lvl. After that, should I take my speed to the 3rd cap? Invest in some SA's? Soft cap Jumping? 2nd soft cap catching?

I'm kinda considering overloading catching on my WR now.