Warrior General Games

in a grid system the rushers velocity originally might max out at (i direction is north/south, j direction is east west)

V = 10i + 5j ft/sec
S = (10^2+5^2)^(1/2) = 11.1 ft/sec

So if there is an increase in velocity by let's say 5%?

V = (10i + 5j)*1.05 = 10.5i +5.25j ft/sec
S = (10.5^2+5.25^2)^(1/2) = 11.74 ft/sec

Who knows what the max velocity boost increase is... but there you go.
Velocity vs Speed

Originally posted by Darkstrand
ahh that's a good way of looking at it.

does strength really matter for LTS and PT though? I see so many dismal power backs

uh yes, but momentum is a component of these firing as well... so speed matters

and Robb if you don't get it after what I just posted, you're fucking hopeless.

Originally posted by Homage
uh yes, but momentum is a component of these firing as well... so speed matters

so you think it's strength is most important for power through followed by speed?

is lower shoulder worth it for a power back?

Originally posted by Darkstrand
so you think it's strength is most important for power through followed by speed?

Dont forget about "carrying".

Originally posted by Homage
and Robb if you don't get it after what I just posted, you're fucking hopeless.

I get that

I still have questions regarding both first step and surge but I'll just let it go

Originally posted by Darkstrand
so you think it's strength is most important for power through followed by speed?

momentum is always going to be a large component in the break tackle abilities. But of course you need to be carrying a punch. That is where Strength/Carrying come into play.

You can break lots of tackles with just strength and/or carrying. You won't break much of any tackles without them.

Surge is the best extra SA there is for a back. Stop fronting.

Originally posted by tpaterniti
BTW there's also this property called acceleration which is change in velocity per unit time (i.e. how quickly their velocity increases) which is probably what both SAs deal with. Maybe this could explain why players exceed their top speed, if in fact they do. If Bort programmed FS as an acceleration boost then maybe if you add enough of it you accelerate beyond the speed you would normally go.
No. Bort added the ability for First Step to exceed the normal maximum speed back in the day because it was proving of little use for extremely high agility, medium speed defensive linemen.

Originally posted by tpaterniti
Second, the idea that outside running is "better" than inside running is very subjective.
Not really. You can't win at high levels by running primarily inside. It's mostly there for short yardage and to keep defenses honest in a set-up for outside runs.


Originally posted by Robbnva
Nowhere in that post does it say natural maximum speed
If there was a Mount Rushmore of Stupidity, they would just use your face four times.


Originally posted by Darkstrand
so what kind of strength/carry do I need to make power through fire a lot? What kind of agility do I need for juke? Does vision really matter?
I view vision similarly to confidence for running backs. It helps, but there are so many other things that help more. And ideally you want 180+ combined strength and carrying for a pure tackle breaker. Not sure about Juke.

Outside running is most definitely better than inside rushing. I think I would be a pretty good judge of that over the last couple seasons.

Darkstrand if you build a back like my guy, 90 Strength, 90 Carrying, 140 Speed, 12 Power Through, 2 +% Break Block pieces he will break a lot of tackles. If you get speed higher that would be a plus. I do notice that my guy takes a LONG time to get up to speed sometimes, so more Speed and First Step would probably help this.

Spin and Lower the Shoulder also coincide with your other attributes so they make sense from that perspective. I would say for a pure power back you can get by with less Vision, in the 55-60 range depending who you ask. For what it's worth I almost never see Lower the Shoulder fire but it could be that it is but Power Through just overwhelms it in the replay. I think 85 agility is fine for a power back. I built one with 85 one with 90 and noticed no real difference. 60 Stamina is always a good idea. I wouldn't go higher with a power back because he is a situational player but again some, like Homage, may disagree. I would personally do 60 Confidence on a power back and 6 Cover Up for fumble avoidance.

Jukes and Head Fake work on power backs so it is worth it to add those SAs if you can. The issue this thread has turned into is whether, given a choice, you should add one of those or 6 Surge. I guess that depends what you want your player to do, how he will be used, and how you view the benefits of each.

@ bolick - I wish they would do that. Make it happen since you apparently the smartest most powerful man in all the world

My current PB build end

145 speed
100 carrying
87 strength
87 agility
50 vision
21% Break Tackle
22.5% Fake %
10 Juke
10 PT
10 Surge

a sprinkle of some other abilities (LTS, D4Y, HF, SA, CU)

Originally posted by tpaterniti
Darkstrand if you build a back like my guy, 90 Strength, 90 Carrying, 140 Speed, 12 Power Through, 2 +% Break Block pieces he will break a lot of tackles. If you get speed higher that would be a plus. I do notice that my guy takes a LONG time to get up to speed sometimes, so more Speed and First Step would probably help this.
First Step isn't that good for HBs. Since handoffs are scripted, the only time First Step can fire for them is if something slows them down almost to a stop, which isn't particularly common. Also, don't completely neglect jumping. ~50 in that helps a lot against diving tackle attempts.

Originally posted by
For what it's worth I almost never see Lower the Shoulder fire but it could be that it is but Power Through just overwhelms it in the replay.
That's usually Bort's explanation, but if you think about it there are plenty of replays where Power Through doesn't fire and yet LtS still seems pretty rare. I'm guessing the +break tackle score from LtS is small enough that it doesn't have much chance to make the difference between being tackled and not.

Originally posted by
I would personally do 60 Confidence on a power back and 6 Cover Up for fumble avoidance.
Confidence has no significant effect on fumble avoidance.