Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Dpride59
lol... We're talking about wr's right? You realize speed is the most important factor of any wr's in the nfl right?


Ummmm, this is a joke, right?

Look at Sterling Sharpe. Everyone always knew on 3rd and whatever that he was getting the ball. the Packers had no one else that could even pretend to catch the ball. So, he was doubled and often trip covered, yet he put up great #s, and would have been soooooooooooooo much better if he wasn't flanked by NFL greats, such as Sonjay Beech

Jerry Rice, arguably the best WR of all time

Steve Largent, Chris Carter, Hines Ward, on and on and on and on. Speed is NOT "the most important factor of any wr's in the nfl" and you know it as well as I do.

Originally posted by PP
Originally posted by Dpride59

lol... We're talking about wr's right? You realize speed is the most important factor of any wr's in the nfl right?


Ummmm, this is a joke, right?

Look at Sterling Sharpe. Everyone always knew on 3rd and whatever that he was getting the ball. the Packers had no one else that could even pretend to catch the ball. So, he was doubled and often trip covered, yet he put up great #s, and would have been soooooooooooooo much better if he wasn't flanked by NFL greats, such as Sonjay Beech

Jerry Rice, arguably the best WR of all time

Steve Largent, Chris Carter, Hines Ward, on and on and on and on. Speed is NOT "the most important factor of any wr's in the nfl" and you know it as well as I do.



I agree. Those players GLB equivalent builds would be balanced or even possession.

Originally posted by PatricktheDookie
Originally posted by Dpride59

lol... We're talking about wr's right? You realize speed is the most important factor of any wr's in the nfl right

I recall Jerry Rice having one of the slower 40 times coming out of college.



In a sprint, Rice was not especially fast. He had an incredible burst, though. His acceleration was way better than average, too. Slow players do not turn 5 yard slants into 75 yard touchdowns. However, there have been many players who are faster than Rice that can't even compare to him.

Originally posted by msupoke

In a sprint, Rice was not especially fast. He had an incredible burst, though. His acceleration was way better than average, too. Slow players do not turn 5 yard slants into 75 yard touchdowns. However, there have been many players who are faster than Rice that can't even compare to him.


Yeah. The point is that what made Rice great wasn't his speed - it was his smooth cuts, burst, and route running skills that made him a nightmare to defend. Jerry Rice couldn't exist in GLB.

I bet most of us could go outside right now and run between a 5 and 6 second 40, and we're not athletes. I understand that we're talking about a game that isn't supposed to be 100% realistic, but the difference between fast and slow players should not be so astronomical. Speed should be an important factor, but not the only factor.

It's not that speed is everything. It's that with Catch % AEQ, you can drop all your points in speed while skimping on catching.

Originally posted by PP
Ummmm, this is a joke, right?

Look at Sterling Sharpe. Everyone always knew on 3rd and whatever that he was getting the ball. the Packers had no one else that could even pretend to catch the ball. So, he was doubled and often trip covered, yet he put up great #s, and would have been soooooooooooooo much better if he wasn't flanked by NFL greats, such as Sonjay Beech

Jerry Rice, arguably the best WR of all time

Steve Largent, Chris Carter, Hines Ward, on and on and on and on. Speed is NOT "the most important factor of any wr's in the nfl" and you know it as well as I do.



You're mental. All of those guys are still 4.5 guys. Chris carter was a 4.6 guy but was good at everything, and was still 130 speed by glb standards. What you're missing, and I don't understand why you don't get this is, you still need speed to be a wr, you still need a good 1st step, you still need a quick cut, you still need to be able to catch the ball..


What happens for those who aren't around to see it is, PP has crappy cb's in his farm system (cinci demoting) and thinks 140 speed = 4.2 speed. The fact is for wl wr's its 4.4 speed, and 150 speed is 4.3... Sorry your cb's are all 4.7 speed cb's, just stop trying to get the game nerfed to fit your horrible cb's bro

Originally posted by msupoke

In a sprint, Rice was not especially fast. He had an incredible burst, though. His acceleration was way better than average, too. Slow players do not turn 5 yard slants into 75 yard touchdowns. However, there have been many players who are faster than Rice that can't even compare to him.


So jerry was only like 136 speed, and probably 100 agility 11 qc and 15 fs and high catch % high RR, and high sticky hands. Yeah we should nerf that kind of build because PP's cb's can't cover jerry rice.

Originally posted by Dpride59
Originally posted by msupoke


In a sprint, Rice was not especially fast. He had an incredible burst, though. His acceleration was way better than average, too. Slow players do not turn 5 yard slants into 75 yard touchdowns. However, there have been many players who are faster than Rice that can't even compare to him.


So jerry was only like 136 speed, and probably 100 agility 11 qc and 15 fs and high catch % high RR, and high sticky hands. Yeah we should nerf that kind of build because PP's cb's can't cover jerry rice.

136 anything is pretty ridiculous considering the original scope of the sim.

The main issue with the "normal" WR skills that really set the good ones apart is that there's no brains in QB dots, so they're never/seldom delivering the ball where a silky route runner would be making his break.

So the sim devolves more into "fight for the ball rolls".

Originally posted by kurieg
The main issue with the "normal" WR skills that really set the good ones apart is that there's no brains in QB dots, so they're never/seldom delivering the ball where a silky route runner would be making his break.

So the sim devolves more into "fight for the ball rolls".


I'd even take that a step further...The one decent route fake the WRs used to have was catch fake, but it was deemed OPed on the speed WRs. So, it got slashed to the point that it does no good for anyone but the really really fast WRs. On everyone but the burners, the CBs catch up so fast that it's meaningless. If pump fake ever gets turned down it will become meaningless for every WR except the burners, too (and the amount of bite the defenders take really should be turned down some).

What would have made WAY more sense would be to tie the effectiveness of Catch Fake to a WR's agility and vision. The complaint was it benefited speed WRs too much. So, now, it only benefits speed WRs (and not much even with them) and is worthless for the possession and balanced WRs that needed it the worst.

GLB sure the hell can't blame anyone for making speed wrs. Hell, they've programmed the sim so only the speed wrs can really take much of any advantage of HF, Juke and Catch Fake.

I don't want to see speed WRs nerfed. Hell, it already takes too long to make a decent WR, but I'd love to see there be more of a payoff from having 90 agility, 70+ vision, 60 carrying or strength and so on....just leave it ass it is right now at 68 for agility, 60 for vision and 48 for strength and carrying, but make it produce faster cuts & better fakes (agility & vision) and win more rolls (carrying & str) when you go above those #s. that would make going balanced builds worth something at least. As it sits now, only fast WRs and tkl brkers are very viable options

Originally posted by PP
Originally posted by kurieg

The main issue with the "normal" WR skills that really set the good ones apart is that there's no brains in QB dots, so they're never/seldom delivering the ball where a silky route runner would be making his break.

So the sim devolves more into "fight for the ball rolls".


I'd even take that a step further...The one decent route fake the WRs used to have was catch fake, but it was deemed OPed on the speed WRs. So, it got slashed to the point that it does no good for anyone but the really really fast WRs. On everyone but the burners, the CBs catch up so fast that it's meaningless. If pump fake ever gets turned down it will become meaningless for every WR except the burners, too.

What would have made WAY more sense was to tie the effectiveness of Catch Fake to a WR's agility and vision. The complaint was it benefitted speed WRs too much. So, now, it only benefits speed WRs (and not much even with them) and is worthless for the possession and balanced WRs that needed it the worst.

GLB sure the hell can't blame anyone for making speed wrs. Hell, they've programmed the sim so only the speed wrs can really take much of any advantage of HF, Juke and Catch Fake.

I don't want to see speed WRs nerfed. Hell, it already takes too long to make a decent WR, but I'd love to see there be more of a payoff from having 90 agility, 70+ vision, 60 carrying or strength and so on....just leave it ass it is right now at 68 for agility, 60 for vision and 48 for strength and carrying, but make it produce faster cuts & better fakes (agility & vision) and win more rolls (carrying & str) when you go above those #s. that would make going balanced builds worth something at least. As it sits now, only fast WRs and tkl brkers are very viable options

I agree. Vision really needs to do SOMETHING For WRs. 90+ catching should be more beneficial as well.

Originally posted by Dpride59
Originally posted by PP

Ummmm, this is a joke, right?

Look at Sterling Sharpe. Everyone always knew on 3rd and whatever that he was getting the ball. the Packers had no one else that could even pretend to catch the ball. So, he was doubled and often trip covered, yet he put up great #s, and would have been soooooooooooooo much better if he wasn't flanked by NFL greats, such as Sonjay Beech

Jerry Rice, arguably the best WR of all time

Steve Largent, Chris Carter, Hines Ward, on and on and on and on. Speed is NOT "the most important factor of any wr's in the nfl" and you know it as well as I do.



You're mental. All of those guys are still 4.5 guys. Chris carter was a 4.6 guy but was good at everything, and was still 130 speed by glb standards. What you're missing, and I don't understand why you don't get this is, you still need speed to be a wr, you still need a good 1st step, you still need a quick cut, you still need to be able to catch the ball..


What happens for those who aren't around to see it is, PP has crappy cb's in his farm system (cinci demoting) and thinks 140 speed = 4.2 speed. The fact is for wl wr's its 4.4 speed, and 150 speed is 4.3... Sorry your cb's are all 4.7 speed cb's, just stop trying to get the game nerfed to fit your horrible cb's bro


Speed is not the same as first step and quick cut. That is agility, in real life, at least. I have 4.8 receivers with extremely quick feet on my football team. There are many 4.4 guys who can't come close to that kind of agility.

Originally posted by Dpride59
You're mental. All of those guys are still 4.5 guys. Chris carter was a 4.6 guy but was good at everything, and was still 130 speed by glb standards. What you're missing, and I don't understand why you don't get this is, you still need speed to be a wr, you still need a good 1st step, you still need a quick cut, you still need to be able to catch the ball..


What happens for those who aren't around to see it is, PP has crappy cb's in his farm system (cinci demoting) and thinks 140 speed = 4.2 speed. The fact is for wl wr's its 4.4 speed, and 150 speed is 4.3... Sorry your cb's are all 4.7 speed cb's, just stop trying to get the game nerfed to fit your horrible cb's bro

ummmm, do you ever have arguements that are based in reality at all? Anyone that has a mind can see why you're doing. You are building OMG speed WRs in your system. So, it scares the hell out of you to think that speed WRs could get nerfed. Trying to paint it that anyone who opposes a ridiculous statement you make as trying to gain an advantage because of their builds, when it's you who soooooooo obviously always does that, is fairly transparent to anyone who looks at all. You have absolutely no clue what the builds of my farm CBs are, and you just made that painfully obvious to everyone in my system.

Now, I'm NOT calling for a speed nerf and would argue HARD against it if it ever came up. You misunderstood my saying that your comment is a joke with me wanting speed WRs nerfed. I don't and have argued against it every time it has come up (as any long time tester here can verify)....But, continue to make thing up. It amuses me

Originally posted by PP
Originally posted by Dpride59

lol... We're talking about wr's right? You realize speed is the most important factor of any wr's in the nfl right?


Ummmm, this is a joke, right?

Look at Sterling Sharpe. Everyone always knew on 3rd and whatever that he was getting the ball. the Packers had no one else that could even pretend to catch the ball. So, he was doubled and often trip covered, yet he put up great #s, and would have been soooooooooooooo much better if he wasn't flanked by NFL greats, such as Sonjay Beech

Jerry Rice, arguably the best WR of all time

Steve Largent, Chris Carter, Hines Ward, on and on and on and on. Speed is NOT "the most important factor of any wr's in the nfl" and you know it as well as I do.



Lets take a step back here, PP. Speed is the most important attribute but:
A) Some guys don't have track speed but do have Football speed
and
B) Some guys make up for less speed with awesome route running and agility or great hands and leaping ability
Basically, when it comes to separation...speed is the #1 thing(physically) that gets it BUT unlike in GLB, there is more than one way to get separation AND route running is more important than speed.(route running isn't physical though) Issue is, Route Running means little on GLB while speed is p much all you need with catch ball AEQ.

Originally posted by PP
ummmm, do you ever have arguements that are based in reality at all? Anyone that has a mind can see why you're doing. You are building OMG speed WRs in your system.

.But, continue to make thing up. It amuses me



lol... I Wouldn't call our guys speed freaks. I'd call them trying to be better versions of ed o brien.

http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=1270278

But continue to make things up. It amuses me