Warrior General Games

Originally posted by JuniorMcSpiffy
Gutting teams and fire sales are ugly, but if a team owner sees a team that is doing it, they would be negligent to their team and all the people with players on their team if they *DON'T* try to take advantage of it.

I disagree with this statement. There's more to playing this game than just winning. If there's a gutting of a team (I'm not including the scenario of new ownership and players wanting off as a result), I would suggest it's in everybody's interest to ignore it - it will decrease the likelihood of future guttings in that way. Integrity should be more important that simply winning and trying to improve at all costs.

I've already had my players traded from a team this season because I didn't like the way the owner did business in trying to improve his team. I'd have no problem doing it again regardless of how good or bad the team was.

Originally posted by JuniorMcSpiffy

* The only players who made it onto the Bandits were ones who were upgrades to the Bandit's roster while all the players who wouldn't be upgrades were traded to other teams. If even one player capable of helping out the Bandits made it to a different team, it doesn't look suspicious to me.

That's a good way to put it.

And for the record, there were MANY players who would've been upgrades for the Bandits. Level 15 LBs, Level 15 HB (which is a need on the Bandits), Level 14 C, and more, all would've been upgrades, and all went to random other teams.

Originally posted by JuniorMcSpiffy
By the way you are stating it, BillyVassi was in collusion with EVERY team he traded with.


No, because Billy didn't have players on, and wasn't an active member of the other teams he was trading with.

Originally posted by
* BillyVassi blew up the team for the purpose of releasing all the players to free them up for the trade
That was his stated intention per the first thread.

Originally posted by
* The only players who made it onto the Bandits were ones who were upgrades to the Bandit's roster while all the players who wouldn't be upgrades were traded to other teams. If even one player capable of helping out the Bandits made it to a different team, it doesn't look suspicious to me.

Players don't have to be upgrades on starters, to be upgrades. The situation certainly was both a financial (no longer paying for an inactive) and personnel upgrade for the Bandits.

Originally posted by
But that's not worth sanctioning, suspending or banning anyone.

Violating the rules, as was done, is worth punishing as per the terms of service. should we let one person get away with it (because he supposedly only did it once)..what about the next guy? Is it fair to punish him after letting the first guy off?

There are a reason rules are in place. Otherwise everyone would just cheat.

Originally posted by billyvassi
Originally posted by JuniorMcSpiffy


* The only players who made it onto the Bandits were ones who were upgrades to the Bandit's roster while all the players who wouldn't be upgrades were traded to other teams. If even one player capable of helping out the Bandits made it to a different team, it doesn't look suspicious to me.

That's a good way to put it.

And for the record, there were MANY players who would've been upgrades for the Bandits. Level 15 LBs, Level 15 HB (which is a need on the Bandits), Level 14 C, and more, all would've been upgrades, and all went to random other teams.

Did Catspaw post on the private forum that we needed a backup good CB? That was the position needed? They didn't need those other players, and would not have been upgrades at all.

You knew the CB was needed. You used your GM status to give that player to the Bandits for nothing (inactive players = nothing).

Originally posted by billyvassi
Originally posted by JuniorMcSpiffy


* The only players who made it onto the Bandits were ones who were upgrades to the Bandit's roster while all the players who wouldn't be upgrades were traded to other teams. If even one player capable of helping out the Bandits made it to a different team, it doesn't look suspicious to me.

That's a good way to put it.

And for the record, there were MANY players who would've been upgrades for the Bandits. Level 15 LBs, Level 15 HB (which is a need on the Bandits), Level 14 C, and more, all would've been upgrades, and all went to random other teams.

In fact, let me expand on that Level 15 HB. He SPECIFICALLY wanted to go to a team that I was on (called me the best GM in the league and said he wanted to stay on a team with me). He didn't, he went to a random team I have no involvement in, despite HB being one of the Bandits' biggest needs.

Originally posted by lerriuqs
Originally posted by JuniorMcSpiffy

Gutting teams and fire sales are ugly, but if a team owner sees a team that is doing it, they would be negligent to their team and all the people with players on their team if they *DON'T* try to take advantage of it.

I disagree with this statement. There's more to playing this game than just winning. If there's a gutting of a team (I'm not including the scenario of new ownership and players wanting off as a result), I would suggest it's in everybody's interest to ignore it - it will decrease the likelihood of future guttings in that way. Integrity should be more important that simply winning and trying to improve at all costs.

I've already had my players traded from a team this season because I didn't like the way the owner did business in trying to improve his team. I'd have no problem doing it again regardless of how good or bad the team was.

I respect that, and in a utopian society, I'd agree with it. But when you know some teams are engaging in it, it's hard to take the high road and not engage in it. I suppose that's the same thing as visualizing world peace... you have to visualize who disarms first. So I guess that's the reason pro teams have salary caps, to protect the owners from themselves.

At a minimum I think the most equitable solution, one that doesn't punish the Bandits players who weren't a part of this, would be the following.

--The bandits removing Billy, Catspaw's, and the traded for player from their DC for the remainder of the season and playoffs.

--The bandits cut the acquired players at the end of the season

--Billy agrees to pay for the traded for players' flex boosts for next season as recompense for the missed XP due to benching this season.

I believe more punishment should be required of Billy, but that was the most fair settlement I could come up with.

Originally posted by joemalaka

They didn't need those other players, and would not have been upgrades at all.

A level 14 C isn't an upgrade over a level 13 C? A level 15 OLB isn't an upgrade over a level 12 OLB?

Originally posted by billyvassi
Originally posted by billyvassi

Originally posted by JuniorMcSpiffy



* The only players who made it onto the Bandits were ones who were upgrades to the Bandit's roster while all the players who wouldn't be upgrades were traded to other teams. If even one player capable of helping out the Bandits made it to a different team, it doesn't look suspicious to me.

That's a good way to put it.

And for the record, there were MANY players who would've been upgrades for the Bandits. Level 15 LBs, Level 15 HB (which is a need on the Bandits), Level 14 C, and more, all would've been upgrades, and all went to random other teams.

In fact, let me expand on that Level 15 HB. He SPECIFICALLY wanted to go to a team that I was on (called me the best GM in the league and said he wanted to stay on a team with me). He didn't, he went to a random team I have no involvement in, despite HB being one of the Bandits' biggest needs.



So you took the high road with one player and not with others? You're still guilty man. Showing examples of areas where you aren't doesn't make it right when you do it.

Full disclosure about who I am because apparently that drastically affects how posts are read around here: For the past THREE days I have been on the Bandits team. At this point, I have no real emotional attachment to the players or owners, or even the team, other than that I took about an hour to create my avatar. I also have a player on a BBB team that started at the end of Season 1.
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About 3 days ago, just about when all this was happening, I noticed a post by CatsPaw in the "teams looking for players" forum, stating that he was looking for a back-up WR, TE, or CB.

I PMed him and told him that I had extra Flex, that I wanted to create a player, and that I could create any of those players. He asked me to come up with a big tight end to sign. Sure enough, after I created my guy, Cats signed him.

Let me just ask this: If CatsPaw and the Bandits are so guilty of collusion, then wouldn't they do something to get a tight end that was better than level 1? Look at the depth chart... "Paul Orndorff"... level 1 third-string tight end, I think 5th string-wide receiver on rare occassions.

I really, REALLY believe that if Catspaw and BillyVassi were colluding to make the Bandits a better team, they would've taken someone even mediocre at that spot. Instead, I'm there, because Cats told me in our conversations that he thought I was a good guy to have around.

I don't agree with what Billy did at the trading deadline, but I understand it. I also think the Bandits had nothing, absolutely nothing, to do with it.

Just my two cents.

Originally posted by Ballbright

So you took the high road with one player and not with others? You're still guilty man. Showing examples of areas where you aren't doesn't make it right when you do it.

That's the thing... You're making assumptions about the road I took with ANY of the players.

Originally posted by billyvassi
Originally posted by Ballbright


So you took the high road with one player and not with others? You're still guilty man. Showing examples of areas where you aren't doesn't make it right when you do it.

That's the thing... You're making assumptions about the road I took with ANY of the players.


Well considering the path you picked before the trade deadline, it's hard to see how you actually took the high road with ANY of them...

Originally posted by billyvassi
Originally posted by Ballbright


So you took the high road with one player and not with others? You're still guilty man. Showing examples of areas where you aren't doesn't make it right when you do it.

That's the thing... You're making assumptions about the road I took with ANY of the players.

No, I'm not. By your own admission, YOU contacted Catspaw about the player in question. It's against the rules.

In the original thread, I had stated that what you had done to Spinner's team wasn't right, but not punishable as it was within the rules "..unless you had traded a player or players to a team you were on..." WHICH YOU DID!!!!!!!

As per the rules it IS collusion, you DID violate the rules, and you DO deserve to be punished for it.

Originally posted by atm490
Full disclosure about who I am because apparently that drastically affects how posts are read around here: For the past THREE days I have been on the Bandits team. At this point, I have no real emotional attachment to the players or owners, or even the team, other than that I took about an hour to create my avatar. I also have a player on a BBB team that started at the end of Season 1.
---

About 3 days ago, just about when all this was happening, I noticed a post by CatsPaw in the "teams looking for players" forum, stating that he was looking for a back-up WR, TE, or CB.

I PMed him and told him that I had extra Flex, that I wanted to create a player, and that I could create any of those players. He asked me to come up with a big tight end to sign. Sure enough, after I created my guy, Cats signed him.

Let me just ask this: If CatsPaw and the Bandits are so guilty of collusion, then wouldn't they do something to get a tight end that was better than level 1? Look at the depth chart... "Paul Orndorff"... level 1 third-string tight end, I think 5th string-wide receiver on rare occassions.

I really, REALLY believe that if Catspaw and BillyVassi were colluding to make the Bandits a better team, they would've taken someone even mediocre at that spot. Instead, I'm there, because Cats told me in our conversations that he thought I was a good guy to have around.

I don't agree with what Billy did at the trading deadline, but I understand it. I also think the Bandits had nothing, absolutely nothing, to do with it.

Just my two cents.

That team had a level 15 TE, too. If we were colluding he would've gotten that guy instead of signing a random low level guy from the forum.

Originally posted by billyvassi
Originally posted by Ballbright


So you took the high road with one player and not with others? You're still guilty man. Showing examples of areas where you aren't doesn't make it right when you do it.

That's the thing... You're making assumptions about the road I took with ANY of the players.

Sorry, mr. vassi, but from everything that's been put out, nobody would believe that you did the "right" thing with any of these "deals" you made with various teams. Your part in this whole situation has been too well documented, the primary point of the debate at this time is where the Bandits' fault lies in this.