Originally posted by PP
Originally posted by thehazyone
http://goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=2453739
I've posted all the discussion going on re: the running game. If anyone has questions/ideas/suggestions, please post there and please keep the flaming to a minimum.
Since you asked to keep flaming to a minimum there, Hazy, I'll flame you here instead.
BTW, this isn't really meant as a flame and sorry it is so long winded.
Those tests you ran, though 100% needed (and I thank you for running them and sharing the results) are exactly why I feel I shouldn't have to play against testers. Now, hopefully, Bort does make more adjustments to the sim. I agree that everything I've seen indicates that, if not, he has ruined the run game. However, if he doesn't, you know know which run plays work at all and how far you can push your D into pass coverage mode, while still not having to worry about the run. You know what you can expect out of power backs and a handful of other things.
Now, all you have to do is run a series of tests to find pass play exploits. While doing that (again, something that needs to be done), you'll find which pass plays work best under this sim, as well as which pass D settings are best suited to stop them. All that has to occur even when someone isn't purposefully trying to gain an advantage.
Accomplishing all that takes most teams well into regular ssn to learn, costing them wasted plays to do so, but any tester can have those answers before ssn begins. I KNOW you are doing the things that need to be done and I FIRMLY believe that your motives are pure. I also GREATLY appreciate that you choose to share this with us. That said, would any tester in the world run plays they knew were horrible in a USA Pro game (or in any other competitive league against a competitive team)? You'd be totally screwing your players if you did. Nontesting owners and GMs have to run them or we'll never know if they work or not. That's the sole reason I use scrims as test games, and that isn't even enough and risks showing other teams our weaknesses.
Pls understand what I mean by all of this. Absolutely none of this is personal. Under the current, horribly flawed system in place, I'm thrilled that you are a tester and don't believe you are doing anything remotely "wrong." I mean that sincerely. It's just that this system, since it uses active players, creates an uneven playing field by default. You have a run team. Your tests were 100% legit, 100% needed and 100% understandable. However, you can't tell me that you didn't learn anything, even though it was simply a byproduct of legit testing, that you won't apply to your team. Because you are who you are, you choose to share that with others, if they ask ,or, in this case, if you think it's important enough to post. Since I can only remember seeing posts from a couple of testers, apparently most of them don't share that eagerness to share info. Also, even for those that do, the other owners have to find it.
Active playing/team owning/team GMing testers appears to be the way Bort is going to go, no matter what. IMO, that sucks, but it's also reality. However, since that's the case, all of this is yet another example of why we need read access to the testers' forum...Unlike what Bort said in his response to me (pasted at the bottom), things are going on there and we're just not being kept updated on what it is. Apparently I'm one of the few that seem to think this is an issue anyway. So,I'll try to shut up about it now. I just felt the need to get this out of my system.
Originally posted by Bort
Originally posted by PP
and, btw, what the hell has happened to the tester blog? I have an EXTREMELY hard time believing that nothing else is going on there, yet the updates are coming fewer and further between...I GREATLY appreciate what you're doing here r8, and I mean that sincerely. Thank you, but, aside from what you're doing, this is exactly why I was pushing for read access to the testers forum (or, better yet, not having active players being testers). In this state, info is only being pieced out and only by those that have the desire/willingness to do so, like r8 has been here. Sorry, but, since I have to play against more and more of these guys every ssn (you know, the ones that don't care about winning, but are somehow in pro leagues anyway), this lack of transparency is BS, IMO.
We've been doing a bit less work recently due to me being busy with teams and such for offseason. We'll get back on track shortly!
+1
Originally posted by thehazyone
http://goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=2453739
I've posted all the discussion going on re: the running game. If anyone has questions/ideas/suggestions, please post there and please keep the flaming to a minimum.
Since you asked to keep flaming to a minimum there, Hazy, I'll flame you here instead.
BTW, this isn't really meant as a flame and sorry it is so long winded.Those tests you ran, though 100% needed (and I thank you for running them and sharing the results) are exactly why I feel I shouldn't have to play against testers. Now, hopefully, Bort does make more adjustments to the sim. I agree that everything I've seen indicates that, if not, he has ruined the run game. However, if he doesn't, you know know which run plays work at all and how far you can push your D into pass coverage mode, while still not having to worry about the run. You know what you can expect out of power backs and a handful of other things.
Now, all you have to do is run a series of tests to find pass play exploits. While doing that (again, something that needs to be done), you'll find which pass plays work best under this sim, as well as which pass D settings are best suited to stop them. All that has to occur even when someone isn't purposefully trying to gain an advantage.
Accomplishing all that takes most teams well into regular ssn to learn, costing them wasted plays to do so, but any tester can have those answers before ssn begins. I KNOW you are doing the things that need to be done and I FIRMLY believe that your motives are pure. I also GREATLY appreciate that you choose to share this with us. That said, would any tester in the world run plays they knew were horrible in a USA Pro game (or in any other competitive league against a competitive team)? You'd be totally screwing your players if you did. Nontesting owners and GMs have to run them or we'll never know if they work or not. That's the sole reason I use scrims as test games, and that isn't even enough and risks showing other teams our weaknesses.
Pls understand what I mean by all of this. Absolutely none of this is personal. Under the current, horribly flawed system in place, I'm thrilled that you are a tester and don't believe you are doing anything remotely "wrong." I mean that sincerely. It's just that this system, since it uses active players, creates an uneven playing field by default. You have a run team. Your tests were 100% legit, 100% needed and 100% understandable. However, you can't tell me that you didn't learn anything, even though it was simply a byproduct of legit testing, that you won't apply to your team. Because you are who you are, you choose to share that with others, if they ask ,or, in this case, if you think it's important enough to post. Since I can only remember seeing posts from a couple of testers, apparently most of them don't share that eagerness to share info. Also, even for those that do, the other owners have to find it.
Active playing/team owning/team GMing testers appears to be the way Bort is going to go, no matter what. IMO, that sucks, but it's also reality. However, since that's the case, all of this is yet another example of why we need read access to the testers' forum...Unlike what Bort said in his response to me (pasted at the bottom), things are going on there and we're just not being kept updated on what it is. Apparently I'm one of the few that seem to think this is an issue anyway. So,I'll try to shut up about it now. I just felt the need to get this out of my system.
Originally posted by Bort
Originally posted by PP
and, btw, what the hell has happened to the tester blog? I have an EXTREMELY hard time believing that nothing else is going on there, yet the updates are coming fewer and further between...I GREATLY appreciate what you're doing here r8, and I mean that sincerely. Thank you, but, aside from what you're doing, this is exactly why I was pushing for read access to the testers forum (or, better yet, not having active players being testers). In this state, info is only being pieced out and only by those that have the desire/willingness to do so, like r8 has been here. Sorry, but, since I have to play against more and more of these guys every ssn (you know, the ones that don't care about winning, but are somehow in pro leagues anyway), this lack of transparency is BS, IMO.
We've been doing a bit less work recently due to me being busy with teams and such for offseason. We'll get back on track shortly!
+1
