Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Hukton Vioxx
This thread is awesome. I'm sure Bort will be inclined to read through pages of flaming to see some of the very good points made here.

Same points people have been making for quite some time. If he hasn't listened by now, then his own mind is pretty made up. Maybe he thinks standard Pro defenders are missing something that's more important to stop power runners then any of us realize?

Who knows.

Originally posted by Drago
Originally posted by The Strategy Expert

Originally posted by joemiken




A LOT of teams in various levels and regions would be up shit creek if this was adopted. It's not hard to run a handful of games, find out which plays are more powerful, then spam the shit out of them. Kinda takes the 'coordinating' out of offensive coordinator, ya know? I have a lot more respect for teams like DDL, Marblehead, West Scranton and Santiago that aren't living off exploits.

Sorry to hear the news VB.

Appreciate the sentiment JM....Yeah I have this novel concept where I think it would be cool to win a football trophy rather than a trophy based upon "gaming the system". I thought it would also be nice to try and show the players on my team a fun experience along the way where they can all have at least have some opportunity to contribute to our games. I'm kind of nuts. After all, playing the game while also trying to think of others that spend hard earned money on this game can sometimes cause us some difficulties in winning trophies and then I get to be the butt of strategy guide jokes cause we don't have as much hardware as those that try to exploit the game. Silly me for thinking of others first and trying my best to make sure everybody has a good time.

What were your excuses for why your team wasn't worth shit in all the other Pro seasons?

Also says the dipshit who put this game out there:

http://goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=288703

That's 87 passes from his own QB so he could win a meaningless passing title trophy (his only one on a team that barely made the playoffs) and 4 rushes to the RB's.

Don't act like you're high and mighty TSE... you're a pile of shit on a level the rest of us don't even come close to.

It's a gutted team. The points come no matter what. What difference does it make if all the spoils go to passing, or all to rushing, or 50/50, it's a joke game and everybody gets to play the joke game and do whatever they want in it to amuse themselves to pass the time.

Originally posted by islander1
Originally posted by Hukton Vioxx

This thread is awesome. I'm sure Bort will be inclined to read through pages of flaming to see some of the very good points made here.

Same points people have been making for quite some time. If he hasn't listened by now, then his own mind is pretty made up. Maybe he thinks standard Pro defenders are missing something that's more important to stop power runners then any of us realize?

Who knows.

MOAR SPEED PLEASE.

Is there something new in that re-post? tldr to find out

Originally posted by Drago
Originally posted by islander1

Originally posted by Hukton Vioxx


This thread is awesome. I'm sure Bort will be inclined to read through pages of flaming to see some of the very good points made here.

Same points people have been making for quite some time. If he hasn't listened by now, then his own mind is pretty made up. Maybe he thinks standard Pro defenders are missing something that's more important to stop power runners then any of us realize?

Who knows.

MOAR SPEED PLEASE.

AND MOAR AGILITY.

My QB is a FA. I have already PMd CV about the job.
http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=87566

Not a bad rating on a team that everyone KNOWS will pass nearly 100%, check out my attempts per game.

Drago, you are OK being the backup, right?

Originally posted by The Strategy Expert

It's a gutted team. The points come no matter what. What difference does it make if all the spoils go to passing, or all to rushing, or 50/50, it's a joke game and everybody gets to play the joke game and do whatever they want in it to amuse themselves to pass the time.

Originally posted by The Strategy Expert
I thought it would also be nice to try and show the players on my team a fun experience along the way where they can all have at least have some opportunity to contribute to our games. I'm kind of nuts. After all, playing the game while also trying to think of others that spend hard earned money on this game can sometimes cause us some difficulties in winning trophies and then I get to be the butt of strategy guide jokes cause we don't have as much hardware as those that try to exploit the game. Silly me for thinking of others first and trying my best to make sure everybody has a good time.

http://goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=288703

87 passes, 4 rushes... the RB's were having a lot of fun picking up blitzes or sitting on the sidelines?

Originally posted by The Duff Man
My QB is a FA. I have already PMd CV about the job.
http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=87566

Not a bad rating on a team that everyone KNOWS will pass nearly 100%, check out my attempts per game.

Drago, you are OK being the backup, right?

Psh, you can't handoff like this punk. Get to the back of the bus.

Originally posted by Painmaker
Vegas Bronco, sorry to see you standing at the exit. I hope you'll find something that changes your mind before you walk away for good, because you've been an asset to the game. Can't say that I've got anything to point out right now that would do it, but I hope it comes along.

My thoughts on your concerns about the current sim and how it could improve:

The overall forum discussion hovers around "power backs" (a deceptive term) and/or pancakes, but I think the biggest problem is the ease with which blockers can push back defenders. It's most noticeable from the Strong I formation, where the C, RG, ROT, TE, and FB are all available to push back the NT, LDE, LOLB, and SS (assuming the defense blitzes the SS to get him there early) and the line gets about 2.5-3 yards on the push. Any HB with decent carrying, decent strength, Dive 4 Yardage, and/or Tenacious adds another 1-2 yards. That's 3.5-5 yards per play... pretty easy to get consistent first downs with that alone. If the offensive line push were to take longer, allowing defenders to attempt tackles prior to being pushed back that full distance, those runs might be limited to 1-3 yards -- making it much harder to sustain a drive on running alone. The HB I describe here would be my idea of a true "power" back, or alternatively you could call him a "short-yardage" back.

Same blocking problem in a different situation: now those blockers are trying to open up holes. Imagine a Singleback formation where the defense must take a huge risk to keep even 7 in the box, and usually only has 6. Those same blockers now work to open up holes between D linemen, leaving a path for an "explosive" back (speed and carrying, with a little bit of strength and some tackle-breaking SAs like Stiffarm and Power Through along with the VA Bruiser)to hit the LB. A little bit of luck on the part of the explosive back and he's broken through into the secondary. If he builds up enough steam by the time the safety gets there, he's got a good chance of steamrolling the poor DB and taking it all the way to the house.

Root cause of both problems: blockers pushing defenders around with too much ease. I think a strength advantage should still mean something, but it might be better to take a little more time for a 300-pound, 130-strength OL to push around a 300-pound, 90-strength DL. This would make for fewer automatic yards per rushing attempt by the short-yardage back and smaller holes for the explosive back to try to exploit (meaning fewer successful big-yardage carries by the explosive back).

Add to this the tendency of a defense to start overplaying a play once it's been run several times successfully would be interesting. Even better, running the same play from the same formation several times and then switching things up (say, run Cross Up after 7 straight Off Tackles from the Strong I) and penalizing the defense (maybe -5% to vision) for overcommitting would make the game more interesting in a way that doesn't completely nerf offense.

I'd love to see more energy effects on both sides of the ball, too. HBs should wear down over the course of the game (seen in lower speed), but so should each defender who attempts a tackle whether he makes it or not (seen in lower strength and tackling). This would allow true power backs (as I refer to them, short-yardage backs) still have a place but not run rampant for 80 yards in the fourth quarter, either.

Overall you see some balanced recommendations imo: nerf to the speed at which OL can push around DL (and vice versa), bias vision in the same way that run-focus or pass-focus individual tactics do for running the same play over and over, and show more stamina/energy effects on both sides of the ball. These changes should encourage more variety on offense because the "3 yards and a cloud of dust" formula won't be nearly automatic between evenly-matched teams.

Of course I'd also recommend that any such changes be challenged thoroughly on the test server for other vulnerabilities, and no fundamental change be implemented until the offseason. I also think the admins should privately test changes on a server which no GLB players have access to, which uses existing teams and their AIs from big games. They could run 10 instances of games between each of the GLB "Top 10" or "Top 50" or whatever, to see how a change might affect the highest-profile games that the most people pay attention to. Announce at the end of the season (ideally on Day 40 so it's in time for the recruiting season) what the changes will consist of, and hope that Season 9 offers more-entertaining games than the fairly predictable fare we're seeing in Season 8.

edit: My typing has really gone downhill since college...

+1 Painmaker...well said sir

Originally posted by Painmaker
Originally posted by jrry32

Originally posted by HaplosDog


Originally posted by Painmaker

stuff

Great post!!

You should be whitelisted, if you aren't already, so that Bort might see these types of gem posts.

I think Pain is but if not, I can set that up. However, he'll probably answer you faster if you e-mail him. It takes him a week or so to answer a PM.

LOL, thanks but I'm definitely not whitelisted. I'm probably a bit too critical for Bort's taste. As hazy can vouch, it's a hazard of my profession.

Do you want me to send Bort a message?

Originally posted by Drago


87 passes, 4 rushes... the RB's were having a lot of fun picking up blitzes or sitting on the sidelines?



RBs got most of the spoils in previous guttings over many other seasons, I owe the WRs more and still a lot more to be fair to them in that regard.

Originally posted by islander1
Originally posted by The Duff Man

This league is a joke.

Anyway, if you have a good idea, send me a PM. I had a nice streak of Bort listening to me for some reason, so you never know...

if he hasn't listened yet...actually, I can only hope he has, but isnt going to drop the bomb until the offseason, being this season is pretty far along.


He shouldn't either...He makes anymore changes now and the 1st 10 games become even more meaningless.

PBs shouldn't be nerfed, I have no desire to see LC nerfed. His stamina should be drained more and any team should take a hit for running the same play too much, but LC is a hell of a PB and he shouldn't be hurt because he made a great build. Also, it's about time strength finally meant something to an OL again. I tend to have agreed with Pain on most things, but I'd have to say that a "130-strength OL" SHOULD "push around a 300-pound, 90-strength DL." That's exactly what should happen. For Christ sake, he's 31% stronger!!!! If he doesn't drive him down the field, what's the point of putting 130 into str?! On the flip side, except for some slow build guys, if you actually have 130 str, those 90 agility, 68 speed DTs should shine in pass rush, but they should get their asses caked in the run game.

I agree that QBs need to lead their WRs and all that, but that's not the cause of the prob this ssn...Being able to run the same play for infinity and HBs not taking energy hits is

Yup. More people caught on to the power of the running game because the passing game was so shitty early. And more pancakes this season. That is the only real difference from last season's sim.

Originally posted by PP
I'd have to say that a "130-strength OL" SHOULD "push around a 300-pound, 90-strength DL." That's exactly what should happen. For Christ sake, he's 31% stronger!!!! If he doesn't drive him down the field, what's the point of putting 130 into str?! On the flip side, except for some slow build guys, if you actually have 130 str, those 90 agility, 68 speed DTs should shine in pass rush, but they should get their asses caked in the run game.

That's still allowed in my suggestion: let them push the defender around, but not so quickly. Opening holes takes time to develop in RL football, allowing help from the LBs and safeties to arrive. In GLB it's fairly immediate. Slow down the process and rushing production drops a bit without good builds becoming worthless in the process.

edit: in the interests of not hijacking VB's farewell more than we already have, discussion of my recent soapbox rant can be continued here: http://goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=2301266
Still sorry to lose the Flyin' E, glad we got to play a game before you guys play That's All Right...