Warrior General Games

Originally posted by GroupOh
i get that, especially for world league coordinators... i just wonder about the guy that builds a dot for one of our teams. he builds a dot for almost 5 months... how long until he has something to do again? i'm not opposed to things changing.. i just dont think i would add to the number of plateau seasons and keep that at 5. i think some people may check out with a 9 season plateau.



they should be able to build their next dot while the first is in plateau

Originally posted by Theo Wizzago
Originally posted by Theo Wizzago

I think Bort already has the answer staring him in the face. What he did to get THIS season started... allowing dots to boost (3x more) up during preseason and pro-rating TP's worked fine (so far). Just extend that for a full season at start of dot creation. Give all the necessary TP's and allow all the necessary boosting to have a finished rookie dot (level 19) ready to go. Wouldn't need to change anything we already do. VP's wouldn't need any changing... badda bing, badda boom. Everybody (well... most everybody) happy. Then add on 1 season of Plateau as compensation for lost Rookie season that way the dots can be made a little quicker (if desired) and last a little longer.

This isn't so cut and dry. The XP curve, and therefore the training rate curve, is changing a bit, and the ending point of season 1 is no longer lv 19. The existing players will end up in the middle of the new age tiers, which means they would have to be fast forwarded with XP, missing out on training against ALGs and basically making the request for this version of accelerated building moot.

In the end, since you will now get more training instances available in between level ups I'm thinking the existing players would actually end up at something of a disadvantage long-term unless they're reset.

If you're arguing that the next batch of new players should start at a higher level via a training point and XP dump so they can start where existing players are...that's what most people were against and why this suggestion exists in the first place.

Regarding the accelerated build talk, I am immensely in favor, for all of the reasons people have mentioned. I cannot count the number of times over the past 10 years where a friend would see me playing the game or somehow it would come up and I'd be like "I cannot in good conscience recommend this game to you. *I* love it dearly but it takes a literal year to build a player to their end-game status and your first couple sets of players will be awful. If it's something you think is really interesting I'd be happy to guide you through it but it's one of those things that is really hard to pick up."

It would be incredible if I didn't have to say that anymore. I actually think I could get people to come back and/or try it for the first time.

Originally posted by Bort
This isn't so cut and dry. The XP curve, and therefore the training rate curve, is changing a bit, and the ending point of season 1 is no longer lv 19. The existing players will end up in the middle of the new age tiers, which means they would have to be fast forwarded with XP, missing out on training against ALGs and basically making the request for this version of accelerated building moot.

In the end, since you will now get more training instances available in between level ups I'm thinking the existing players would actually end up at something of a disadvantage long-term unless they're reset.

If you're arguing that the next batch of new players should start at a higher level via a training point and XP dump so they can start where existing players are...that's what most people were against and why this suggestion exists in the first place.



So what you are basically saying is with the accelerated build plan you are creating all the current dots created in S99 should be reset, otherwise, they will be at a disadvantage when they all hit D280(WL/PRO dot)? Having said that, will there be a quicker way to recreate the players we made this Season without going through all the time it takes to create a player? As far as the accelerated build plan goes how much quicker will it be to get to D280(WL/PRO dot) than it was before? Will there be more Season's of plateau since the build process is shorter? Thanks in advance for your reply.

Originally posted by Bort
This isn't so cut and dry. The XP curve, and therefore the training rate curve, is changing a bit, and the ending point of season 1 is no longer lv 19. The existing players will end up in the middle of the new age tiers, which means they would have to be fast forwarded with XP, missing out on training against ALGs and basically making the request for this version of accelerated building moot.

In the end, since you will now get more training instances available in between level ups I'm thinking the existing players would actually end up at something of a disadvantage long-term unless they're reset.

If you're arguing that the next batch of new players should start at a higher level via a training point and XP dump so they can start where existing players are...that's what most people were against and why this suggestion exists in the first place.



Ah. So you've already started in changing the (build) process. Didn't know. Sorry.

No... my 'point' was that, using the build process, as it was before the crash, you could simply extend what you did to get this season started and make it for a full (Rookie) season. That way, I thought, might be easier than trying to totally re-do the whole build process. What I failed to take into account was 'XP'. The way you 'fixed' it for this season, all boosts and TP's were easy too push out until the end of Preseason... but avoiding the Regular season and daily/game XP issue. For that, there would have to be some kind of 'accelerated clock' to make my idea work. So... still a lot of work either way.

Originally posted by GroupOh
i am torn, i'm in the minority, but i think rapid dot building can have a negative effect on the userbase. most people play here because dot building is the fun part.

+100000

Man, this seems like a wholesale change on a game that has thrived using a system that made it 15 years. Maybe make GLB2 the fast grow, whereas 1 would stay like developing a fine wine. One thing that would slip by the wayside is the impact of training when you get the bonus for a particular session. Some dots end up being noticeably better if they can strike that note a number of times on the way up. Plus the uniqueness of dot's builds, rather than cookie cutter.

Oh well, ultimately Bort will do as he intends, I just see more negatives than positives and that is never a plus. Ben Franklin used to draw a line down the middle of a page when faced with a decision and would mark the pros on one side, cons on the other and his decision would logically be made for him; I see more cons with the rapid grow...

Originally posted by King of Bling
a game that has thrived


You keep saying this...I agree it's impressive that people have played for 15 real life years, but thrived? Remember when WL had 32 teams in it, and it was still really hard to get there? I do. Remember when it was hard to buy a team at rollover because so many people were trying to buy them? I do.

We don't know yet what the new process will be, so we don't know yet if it's true that the impact of timing trainings will be diminished or eliminated, and I personally highly doubt that that will be the case.

All I know is people are reluctant to change as a general principal. But, once change is done... as long as it didn't make things much worse, we generally adjust and keep on keepin on. I don't think, based off of what Bort has posted so far, that we're talking about some kind of giant radical change. ALG's will still be ALG's. Boosting will still be boosting. Skills will still be what they are and what they do. Maybe we lose one season's worth of dot building... maybe we lose a level on the ladder... maybe we gain an extra season of plateau. In the end, we'll just adjust and keep on keepin on. Maybe a few will leave... maybe some will return... but the game remains the same (in the end).

The training system was changed in almost the same fashion as being discussed here back in s24, also.

I can understand the call for caution on the part of some,
but if you think back to when this game was most active, vibrant and successful there were actually major changes being made.
World League didn't come in until season 10, multi-training, the testing server changes etc.

The long player build process was a major reason players like myself went inactive. The hope of a quicker process is why I'm currently back hanging around to see what happens. If I like it I'll play again.

In the past Bort made some pretty good lemonade and I'm thirsty.

I think both sides are right.

The fact that this game still exists at all after all this time is a testament to how much Bort got right overall. There's no need to scrap it all and start over -- he tried that already, and it was called GLB2, and it didn't work out very well. People in general do enjoy a build process that takes some time to play out.

But how much time is "some time"? THAT'S the million-Flex question.

While GLB still has some players, it's nowhere near as many as it used to be -- and many people cite the lengthy build process as a reason why they leave. And I remember the first time the build process was shortened -- it was a big change and took some getting used to, but it led to a surge of new dots and a lot of excitement at the time.

I think the build process needs to be shortened... but be careful. It's definitely possible to make it *too* short. But right now it's definitely too long, or else there'd be way more active players right now. Find the sweet spot.

So, I don't Discord, but I've been told that Bort said on Discord that he'll be doing something similar to idea from the first post in this thread?

Also, probably a good time to remind Bort that some of us are old fogeys who don't have time to hang around in Discord.

"I'm basing it off your 4-season plan, which seems solid, if you want to poke at it. Main change is that I'm changing it to 5 boosts per season instead of different amounts at various times, for simplicity's sake"

I'd expect an announcement soon, he said most of the engagement is on weekdays