Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Theo Wizzago
Suspect you're talking Throwing QB's and not rushing ones so here's my thoughts on that.

Quick Release. (Must have)

Scrambler (if you have Turn The Shoulder as one of your important SA's.)

Thick Skin isn't bad if your QB is gonna face a lot of those kind of defenders

Laser Arm

And, depending on your end build and any extra needs your QB might have; Football Genius, Track Star, Quick, Workout Warrior... even Swagger if you lowballed you Confidence.

I would have Quick Release, Laser Arm, Hail Mary, and some Overtime Killer. That still leaves room for Slow Starter, if you wanted to get it.

Forgot OTK. Sorry. Did look at Hail Marry... The only thing I thought it might be useful for is if you shortchanged your strength too much and needed the extra boost for the occasional deep pass. I mean, it's not a terrible VA... I just don't see it as a really useful one.

Originally posted by rjssob
Suppose in 1st quarter you run on 1st and 2nd down and possibly 3rd depending on down and distance...what QB VA's do you like

Quick release, laser vision, hail marry, football genius are the big 4 imo.

You can of course create an oai to cater to slow starter. If you are a run heavy team that thinks runs on 1st/2nd down are optimal regardless except late when down, it may be a good option. But if you wouldn't normally like to rubs all 1st/2nd downs and are only doing so for the VA, I really don't like it at all.

I've never been a fan of ot killer for a team since it helps you like once every 10 seasons. I'd prolly go with heart of a champion as a 5th VA assuming you plan to make the playoffs.

Originally posted by WiSeIVIaN
Originally posted by rjssob

Suppose in 1st quarter you run on 1st and 2nd down and possibly 3rd depending on down and distance...what QB VA's do you like

Quick release, laser vision, hail marry, football genius are the big 4 imo.

You can of course create an oai to cater to slow starter. If you are a run heavy team that thinks runs on 1st/2nd down are optimal regardless except late when down, it may be a good option. But if you wouldn't normally like to rubs all 1st/2nd downs and are only doing so for the VA, I really don't like it at all.

I've never been a fan of ot killer for a team since it helps you like once every 10 seasons. I'd prolly go with heart of a champion as a 5th VA assuming you plan to make the playoffs.

given 4 of 6 teams make the playoffs in each division make the playoffs that's a nice way to go

Deep Passer Arch - so you still end up with 96 vision even as the 3rd attribute behind strength and throwing
15 in Laser Arm, Hail Mary and Quick Release
15 in HoC gets you 30 Confidence Boost for playoffs so you can just get 60 confidence in the build
11 in Football Genius, Clutch or ???
1 in OT Killer

Originally posted by WiSeIVIaN
Quick release, laser vision, hail marry, football genius are the big 4 imo.

You can of course create an oai to cater to slow starter. If you are a run heavy team that thinks runs on 1st/2nd down are optimal regardless except late when down, it may be a good option. But if you wouldn't normally like to rubs all 1st/2nd downs and are only doing so for the VA, I really don't like it at all.

I've never been a fan of ot killer for a team since it helps you like once every 10 seasons. I'd prolly go with heart of a champion as a 5th VA assuming you plan to make the playoffs.

Hmmmm... gonna have to look at Hail Mary harder, I guess, because I just didn't see it as all that great. As for OTK, you're a little off on that one. It's benefit actually isn't in Overtime games but in it's effect late in the 4th quarter, I actually am against the 'put one point in OTK' mantra and think you should have no less that 6 in it (if you are going to use it at all) so you actually get a better benefit from it. You get 20 seconds of benefit for each point so anything less than 2 minutes is a bit of a waste to my mind.

"In addition the player gains a 5% bonus to all attributes (during overtime) or when the score is within 7 points during the last 20 seconds of the 4th quarter. Each level of OTK extends the bonus by an additional 20 seconds into the 4th quarter."

I mean, one point in it kinda makes no sense IMO. However, if you had 9 points in it you would it would give you that 5% bonus for the last 3 minutes of the game... perfect if you're wanting to drive down and score the game winning or game tying score on your last drive of the game. And that happens more often than once every ten seasons. I do agree though that, you could make a case for other VA's over OTK.

Last 20 sec or first 20 sec of the 2min warning? See way many games ,defensive , get decided in the 2min or less. Angle for what works there. Is it all play calling that does that?

Originally posted by shepsterbird
Last 20 sec or first 20 sec of the 2min warning? See way many games ,defensive , get decided in the 2min or less. Angle for what works there. Is it all play calling that does that?

I want to respond here, but I have no idea what you are saying or who you are saying it to...

Originally posted by reddogrw
given 4 of 6 teams make the playoffs in each division make the playoffs that's a nice way to go

Deep Passer Arch - so you still end up with 96 vision even as the 3rd attribute behind strength and throwing
15 in Laser Arm, Hail Mary and Quick Release
15 in HoC gets you 30 Confidence Boost for playoffs so you can just get 60 confidence in the build
11 in Football Genius, Clutch or ???
1 in OT Killer

I don't buy that confidence is a "just have enough" attribute on a QB, and I am beyond confident that vision>strength is better. Fwiw vision has been confirmed by bort in being the 2nd most heavily weighted attribute on the pass quality score, after throwing. Though how that ties into strengths effect on pass distance (and indirectly pass quality) is anyone's guess of course.

Originally posted by Theo Wizzago
Hmmmm... gonna have to look at Hail Mary harder, I guess, because I just didn't see it as all that great. As for OTK, you're a little off on that one. It's benefit actually isn't in Overtime games but in it's effect late in the 4th quarter, I actually am against the 'put one point in OTK' mantra and think you should have no less that 6 in it (if you are going to use it at all) so you actually get a better benefit from it. You get 20 seconds of benefit for each point so anything less than 2 minutes is a bit of a waste to my mind.

"In addition the player gains a 5% bonus to all attributes (during overtime) or when the score is within 7 points during the last 20 seconds of the 4th quarter. Each level of OTK extends the bonus by an additional 20 seconds into the 4th quarter."

I mean, one point in it kinda makes no sense IMO. However, if you had 9 points in it you would it would give you that 5% bonus for the last 3 minutes of the game... perfect if you're wanting to drive down and score the game winning or game tying score on your last drive of the game. And that happens more often than once every ten seasons. I do agree though that, you could make a case for other VA's over OTK.

Keep in mind Hail Marry is calculated based on the distance the ball travels, not the LOS. So if your QB is on a 5 yard drop, and your WR is running a streak route, they line up 15 yards out sideways from the QB. Using the pathagorean theorum a(squared)+b(squared) = c(squared). C is 25 to activate hail marry. B is 15 yards because the WR is running a streak. Solving for a means a = 20 so a pass 20 yards downfield on a streak will activate it. But lets not forgot about the 5 yard drop back, so you only need to have the ball go downfield 15 yards past the LOS on WR sideline streaks, or 20 yards past the LOS on a streak right in front of the QB (imagine a half circle connecting those dots. If you plant to do any passing past that circle, it's a good VA imho, though I can imagine an offense that does none of that.

As far as 9 points in OTK I think it's awful. Remember earlier TD's are worth just as much as late TD's, and imho you are only going to be tied or down 7 or less like once or maybe twice a season at most. And a 5% boost to all atty's on your QB is basically just a 5% boost to throwing+vision+strength+confidence for those plays (since that's all he cares about), and while this is good it certainly isn't game-breaking and it's not like you'll be able to easily throw into double coverage. If you are putting 6 or 9 points on your whole offense that's a HUGE commitment not worth the 1-2x a season it helps.

Compare that to 9 points in football genius (4.5% more vision on EVERY SINGLE PLAY) and it's no contest imho as far as what helps you more.

Originally posted by WiSeIVIaN
Keep in mind Hail Marry is calculated based on the distance the ball travels, not the LOS. So if your QB is on a 5 yard drop, and your WR is running a streak route, they line up 15 yards out sideways from the QB. Using the pathagorean theorum a(squared)+b(squared) = c(squared). C is 25 to activate hail marry. B is 15 yards because the WR is running a streak. Solving for a means a = 20 so a pass 20 yards downfield on a streak will activate it. But lets not forgot about the 5 yard drop back, so you only need to have the ball go downfield 15 yards past the LOS on WR sideline streaks, or 20 yards past the LOS on a streak right in front of the QB (imagine a half circle connecting those dots. If you plant to do any passing past that circle, it's a good VA imho, though I can imagine an offense that does none of that.

As far as 9 points in OTK I think it's awful. Remember earlier TD's are worth just as much as late TD's, and imho you are only going to be tied or down 7 or less like once or maybe twice a season at most. And a 5% boost to all atty's on your QB is basically just a 5% boost to throwing+vision+strength+confidence for those plays (since that's all he cares about), and while this is good it certainly isn't game-breaking and it's not like you'll be able to easily throw into double coverage. If you are putting 6 or 9 points on your whole offense that's a HUGE commitment not worth the 1-2x a season it helps.

Compare that to 9 points in football genius (4.5% more vision on EVERY SINGLE PLAY) and it's no contest imho as far as what helps you more.

Plus the fact that most players will have a certain amount of OTK at the top levels which basically cancels each other out.

Oh ye Wiseman, what is your take on the Thick Skin VA?

Originally posted by WiSeIVIaN
Originally posted by reddogrw

given 4 of 6 teams make the playoffs in each division make the playoffs that's a nice way to go

Deep Passer Arch - so you still end up with 96 vision even as the 3rd attribute behind strength and throwing
15 in Laser Arm, Hail Mary and Quick Release
15 in HoC gets you 30 Confidence Boost for playoffs so you can just get 60 confidence in the build
11 in Football Genius, Clutch or ???
1 in OT Killer

I don't buy that confidence is a "just have enough" attribute on a QB, and I am beyond confident that vision>strength is better. Fwiw vision has been confirmed by bort in being the 2nd most heavily weighted attribute on the pass quality score, after throwing. Though how that ties into strengths effect on pass distance (and indirectly pass quality) is anyone's guess of course.

you can flip strength and vision and have over 100 vision and 95+ strength

my point was if you end at 60 confidence you can still have that at 90 with HOC so no point really going super high with confidence and spend SP elsewhere

Originally posted by Montoya829
Oh ye Wiseman, what is your take on the Thick Skin VA?

It's garbage since the VA's it counters are rarely used garbage.

Originally posted by reddogrw
you can flip strength and vision and have over 100 vision and 95+ strength

my point was if you end at 60 confidence you can still have that at 90 with HOC so no point really going super high with confidence and spend SP elsewhere

My point is I disagree that confidence is an attribute where 90 is arbitrarily "enough" because it looks pretty?

We are all open to our own opinions, but I'd rather have 90 + 30 = 120 confidence with HoAC and 70 strength than have 95 strength and 60+30=90 confidence on a QB.

As someone that used to play this game alot, I have just recently started playing again. I've been out of the game for about 3 years so with that being said, has there been any major changes to how the game works?